Episode Overview

What if life after breast cancer could be more than just getting back to normal?

This week, I'm doing something a little different. I'm inviting you into a conversation with four incredible women I've had the privilege of coaching for more than six years. They've each walked a different path through breast cancer, and they've each discovered something powerful about what it means to create a life that's better than before.

We talk about how October feels different after a diagnosis, why healing doesn't end when treatment does, and what happens when you stop putting everyone else's needs ahead of your own.

You'll hear about learning to set boundaries, trusting yourself with difficult decisions, changing the way you think, and finding support in a community where nobody has to compare their suffering to anyone else's.

One of these women is living with metastatic breast cancer. Others are years beyond treatment. And what I love most is that their different experiences have brought them to something they all share: a deeper understanding of themselves and the power they have to choose how they want to live.

You don't have to wait until everything is resolved to start creating a life you love. And you don't have to figure it all out alone.

Meet the Women:

Avril shares how learning to reframe her thoughts helped her move from feeling like a victim of her diagnosis to recognizing the choices she still has, even when life feels uncertain.

Robin Scalzo shares how breast cancer led her to recognize her own worth, stop putting everyone else's needs first, and make difficult changes in her relationships and her life.

Linda Ford reflects on learning to slow down, trust her decisions, and give herself permission to heal at her own pace, including choosing breast reconstruction eight years after her diagnosis.

Sherry Henderson, who is living with metastatic breast cancer, shares how she's learned to live with uncertainty, trust herself, and find joy and purpose while continuing treatment.

Resources Mentioned:

Download for iPhone: 

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kajabi/id1485646310

Download for Android: 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kajabi.kajabiapp&hl=en_US

Work with Laura:
https://www.thebreastcancerrecoverycoach.com/health 

Let’s Connect!
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Read the full transcript:

Laura Lummer 0:00
You're listening to Better Than Before Breast Cancer with the Breast Cancer Recovery Coach. I'm your host Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills, and the insights, and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis. If you're looking for a way to create a life that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started. Hey, friends! Welcome to another episode of Better Than Before Breast Cancer. I'm your host Laura Lummer, and I'm very excited to bring you today's episode. You know, I had a call. I do a weekly call with my members, both in my Better Than Before Breast Cancer membership and in my Empower membership. And as I had this call coming up, I just thought I would love to share some insights with some of my members with you. And so I reached out and asked them for anybody who's able to be on that week's call. Would they be willing to share the call and some of their insights from their experience? These are clients that have been with me for at least six years that we've been working together, and they have experienced just tremendous growth and change over that period of time. So I invited them to share their insights, and they agreed to do it. And so I am going to share with you some of my amazing clients and their insights. It's kind of like a panel discussion. They're going to talk about some specific questions that I think will be of tremendous value because I think that it always helps when we can hear someone else's story, and especially that story of how did life get better after a breast cancer diagnosis? What did you have to get through? What did you have to do? What challenges did you have to face? What work did you have to do? Because I do believe that it is a lot of work, and I do believe that it takes intention to support our healing, to support our health, but really to redesign life. You know, to not go back to normal, but to go forward with the best version of yourself and your life, and that is a task that takes attention and intention. So these amazing women are going to share some of their stories with you, and I think you're going to absolutely love it. So without further ado, let's do this. Welcome everybody! Thank you for joining me here today on the podcast and for your willingness to share your stories here with everybody who I know they're going to be so meaningful for. So I want to start, ladies, with asking you, because it is the month of October. Has that changed for you at all? Like when you used to see October Breast Cancer Awareness Month come up before you ever had a diagnosis, did that change for you after your diagnosis and the experience of going through breast cancer? Do you see it differently? What does it mean to you, or do you still celebrate it and think it's like cool, love the pink ribbon? Like all all answers are okay. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 2:56
I'll go. So my name is Afro, and I live in Auburn, south of Seattle. And for me, October prior to having a breast cancer diagnosis, I didn't really pay much attention to it, and I'm now six, seven years from my diagnosis. And to be honest, I find I pretty much ignore the breast cancer awareness adverts and stuff. I don't put a lot of focus there, perhaps because it is a trigger, so I deliberately avoid it.

Laura Lummer 3:53
Okay. All right. So you avoided intentionally at this point, or is it just didn't really wasn't just even anywhere on your radar before? What do you want to share, Avril? What it is that's triggering about it for you?

Speaker 1 4:05
Obviously, it brings back the memories of the diagnosis and going through it. At the same time, I'm aware that the message of early detection and bringing that awareness to women is extremely important. So it's not that I don't value the message; I certainly do. But for me personally, I just choose not to invite those memories into my life at this point.

Laura Lummer 4:49
Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Any other thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 4:53
I can. I can share. I think I knew about it. Oh, I forgot. I'm Robin Scalzo, and I'm from Southwest Florida in Venice. And I, in before my diagnosis, I was aware of breast cancer awareness, but kind of the same thing as this is for this month, this is for that month. You know, we have something every month, so it didn't connect because I wasn't really. It's not my family. It's not. It wasn't on my radar as something for me to be concerned about. I went and did my annual mammograms, but never thought that would be my thing. So after diagnosis, I think I finished treatment in October of 2019, and it was October, which is interesting during breast cancer awareness, and I felt compelled to share. I felt like it is something. I just feel responsible, like I should do something, and I think so. I bring pink ribbons to work and pass them out to every coworker, and wear silly buttons every day, and talk about it because when I was diagnosed and I shared it with people at the time of diagnosis, I had one person that hadn't gotten a mammogram in nine years got one and had breast cancer.

Laura Lummer 6:42
Wow!

Speaker 2 6:43
Because I had breast cancer, and then other people were not on top of their mammograms, and they started going. And you know, some were like watch and see because it'd been so long. So I just feel like it's a good opportunity For me, and to talk about

Laura Lummer 7:04
it, yeah. Thank you. I love that, and I love that the perspectives are so different, right? And I think that's why it's so important to share these stories. Things land with us differently, and it's all okay. It all makes sense, you know. And yeah, that's a a fascinating thing, Robin, and not the first time that I've heard that someone by sharing their story, and I think especially you, you have a very healthy lifestyle. That a coworker might look at you and say, "Oh my God, if that could happen to Robin, it could happen to me. Right. So very cool. Yeah. What do you think, Linda?

Speaker 3 7:34
Yeah. So prior to my diagnosis, so I'm Linda Ford. I live in Cork in Ireland, and I think prior to my diagnosis, I would have been aware of Breast Cancer Month. My aunt was diagnosed very young, actually the same age as me when I was diagnosed, which was 47, which I think is very young. So, and then when I was diagnosed, I think I went all in, pink ribbons, fundraising, everything like that. But I've over time, I'm, I'm not as into it. I, I kind of feel, I don't know. I, I feel sometimes with October, it's a, it's a sad reflective month, not just for me, but there's been recently some people that I know diagnosed, and it's you know, and you reflect on them and the journey that they need to, yeah, that they'll be going through, etc. So I find I get reflective in October.

Laura Lummer 8:36
Okay, yeah, totally makes sense. What do you think, Sherry? Hi,

Speaker 4 8:39
I'm Sherry Henderson. I live in Duluth, Minnesota, and excuse me. For me, early stage breast cancer and the awareness and everything. When before I even was diagnosed with breast cancer, I I saw the same. You know, the pink ribbons and the I looked at the five Ks and the raising money and bringing just awareness to women's health, and so I was, I was aware of that, but I didn't participate in that per se. And so then, of course, now I'm living with metastatic breast cancer, with stage four metastatic breast cancer, and that has shifted my perspective on October a lot because you know, I got chemo this Monday, which was september 28, not in October, and then I got hydration on Thursday, which was october 1, the beginning of Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and it just feels like you know when you're living with cancer, then it shifts That perspective from being something outside of my sphere to something that I live with every day, and once November comes around, it's not done. It's not over. I continue with treatment, and so I'm really looking at it kind of like Linda in a. Collective way too, where I think the fundraising is so so important. The the research, the science, and so it's it's those stories that do bring hope, do bring change, do bring I guess understanding and education to what it what it does feel like to live with cancer, which is not something that there's a roadmap for, because everybody is so vastly different, and so I'm trying to take like a delicate dance approach to to October, which is for me, I want to advocate, but I also want to have self compassion for myself and take the moments and the time and the space to take care of myself and support myself when there's so much, you know, statistics and data and information that's flooding around, and and fear, and certainly there is fear with with all of that. But then there's also I do believe in the hope, and I do believe in the you know spotlighting breast cancer in all stages during this month?

Laura Lummer 11:06
Yeah, great point. Great points. Yeah, and you know it's an interesting thing because for me October when I was very first diagnosed back in 2011, after actually I think it was my fourth chemo after my first chemotherapy, a big group of family and friends, and we did part of the Susan G. Komen walk that was out here close to my house, and that just felt so supportive. The community coming together, you know, and walking with my kids, and it was a very emotional experience. And I think at that time too, after that first diagnosis, I was still very much in that warrior state of mind, right, where it is very much about fight, and you're so strong, and you're a warrior. Whereas over the years, that has really shifted for me, especially after like you, Sherry, stage four diagnosis, and and I think that a lot of people just don't realize that. I don't know for you, Sherry, but for me, you know, a lot of people hear about my diagnosis and then they'll say, "Okay, but you're good now, right? You're done now. And there's just not really an understanding that people who have metastatic disease are in treatment for a lifetime, you know. So it, you're right. It's this full spectrum of it can be inspirational, it can be motivating. I think it can give women who are especially in these early stages of treatment or their first go around or even second or third, who knows, that inspiration. You know, the strength, the inner strength that they need to be surrounded and be a part of a community, and then yeah, I think some people can feel lost and some people can feel triggered. So it really is just an interesting experience all the way around. And for me, it's also a month of celebration because October 11th marks six years since my stage four diagnosis. So for me, it's also a really big deal, you know. And it's like, wow, six years, which is like five years beyond my supposed expiration date, and still going strong, right? And kicking off, like you said, I kicked off the month of October by going into the hospital and having fluid drained from my chest, right? And and I think too that over the years, especially with my coaching, my you know my perspective is not so much focused on cancer and treatment as a lot of people, different platforms will focus on. But mine is what do we do now, right? No matter where we are in the diagnosis, in the treatment, in how far you are out of treatment, or if you're living with it, how do we make life as amazing as it can be, no matter where you're at, right? Which is a little bit different than bringing awareness to early detection. And also, as you guys know, my perspective is kind of yeah, early detection is great, but what are we doing for prevention first, right? Can we pay attention to our terrain and still do the things to be careful because there's no guarantee that something will happen, just a risk reduction. But are we really loving our bodies now before we get scared with the diagnosis and then try to change things, right? So, yeah, thanks for that, you guys. So I wonder. So we we could see the difference, the shift in perspective for what this month means, this National Awareness Month. But what about over the years and the work that you have all done, and you have all changed your life in incredible ways, and whatever you're comfortable sharing with that, you know, please share. But how has your perspective of your own diagnosis and what that meant to you changed since you first had it, and the way that your life is now?

Speaker 3 14:53
I'm going to start, and I'm what kind of when I was thinking about today. I just thought, when you get a diagnosis and you are going to treatment, you just want it to be done and for it to be over and move on. But I think what I've really learned is that it's a journey, right? Because the journey doesn't stop when treatment stops. Then you have all this baggage to unpack, and then it's, you know, it's that real self-reflective period comes in around what to do now, or what to change, or what you know. And working with you, Laura, was around where are the pain points, right? Where is the suffering?

Laura Lummer 15:40
Yeah.

Speaker 3 15:40
Right. Right. You know, in terms of relationships, in terms of behaviors, in terms of, you know, just maybe patterns that I couldn't have seen, and then through doing the work with you, that I did see and was able to change, and then I recently went back for a deep flap reconstruction, and I know again it's a journey, and it's going to take from when I had my original to when I'm let's say kind of done. It's about 18 months, but I'm okay and I'm calm with that. Whereas maybe before I would have rushed to get it done, you know, just to be to be done, so I think I'm much more comfortable to experience the journey at a slower pace and be more mindful throughout it. Right?

Laura Lummer 16:31
Yeah, and Linda, you bring up such a great point. So, how many years out of treatment are you from your diagnosis?

Speaker 3 16:37
Eight years.

Laura Lummer 16:39
Eight years, and it was eight years ago when you were going through this, and it came the point at the point where you had to make a decision about reconstruction. And what did you decide at that point?

Speaker 3 16:51
I had had four surgeries to try and keep my right breast. I had had chemotherapy, radiotherapy, and I was absolutely shattered. I really couldn't fathom, you know, putting my body through anything else. Right? I really couldn't. And then it was only I would say maybe after about five years that I started thinking about things, and then it's only recently that I went about it. But it's funny because I woke up from my surgery, and I could hear the doctor saying, "And she waited eight years for this reconstruction, you know. So, and I did, but and it and I would. It's wonderful. It's amazing. I'm so excited by it. Right? Yeah. So it it at the time I just couldn't put my body through another thing,

Laura Lummer 17:45
right? Right, and mentally, like we get to the point. I mean, I shared that experience with you from my first when it was a lumpectomy and then a bilateral mastectomy and chemotherapy, and I was just like, I'm I'm so done, right? I just want. I can't take it anymore, but I love that you shared that because as you're speaking to a journey, how many years down the road? Right, we still are open to. We can still make changes. We can still our relationship with our body, with what we've been through. We can still decide to change our mind about what we need to support us now in that time, and like you said, eight years down the road, and you just went through it again, right? You just went through another surgery, and you're just at a different stage with what you're ready for, and I think that's really important to point out. As many women in our group, right, have gone through multiple stages of surgery many years out from the original diagnosis, and that's okay to do, you know. So I think for people who maybe are early on in their in their treatment protocol, and they're really overwhelmed at all of the decision making, this is a great thing to hear. That it's like there's still time. You can go back. Like it's okay to take care of yourself where you're at now, knowing that you can come back later if you need to, right? Thank you, Linda. Yeah. What else? What are your other thoughts?

Speaker 2 19:13
I can go. I think in diagnosis it was a and going through treatment and stuff, it was all about in my brain getting through it, like you said, and protecting all of those around me to make sure they knew it was okay because it was a new experience. No one had had cancer, and so it wasn't until after the treatment that I realized I hadn't even thought about what the hell was going on. I mean, I had like because I was. I was an advocate and realized I needed to read, learn, get more opinions, make sure everything I was comfortable with with what was being done with the decisions. But I only did it intellectually. Emotionally, It was, you know, ringing the bell, yay! And then I'm like, I just was like a deer in headlights. Honestly, like what, what do I do? And all those, like you mentioned earlier, Laura, all those around me were like, "Oh, you're good now. Like I don't feel good, and and I just kept saying I need to figure out what is a new normal and what I'm able to do, and then I found you and your podcast and going through the programs and realizing, I think really for the first time in a lot of ways of I I have to take care of me whether it's emotion, it's body, it's everything, and realizing that that is not selfish, because in my mind I always thought when I do things for me it's selfish. I have a husband, I had children, and I needed to be 100% in for them, and ignored my needs. So I think working on myself and going through this has be helped me be a great advocate for health for myself in everything I go through. It has also helped me to be an advocate for realizing I need to have boundaries for myself and needs for myself, and I am worth more than I thought I was worth. I thought I was in the life I had, and that's what was given to me, and that's what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And realizing, even after having to be taken care of for the first time in a marriage, and that not going well, that I realized, you know, that marriage was toxic, and it was okay to take care of me and leave that marriage to be better for me, better for anyone around me as well. So I think you know, just learning that that I'm worth it, I think is a big one of the major things, and that it's a journey. You know, it's not. Sometimes with the October, it's you. You know, you're. I still get. Oh, my so and so died. Like I don't care. I mean, I care, but I don't want to hear that. I want to hear the hope.

Laura Lummer 23:17
Yeah,

Speaker 2 23:18
and the and because I want to give hope. That's why I share what I've been through to give hope. But I don't know if that makes sense.

Laura Lummer 23:30
Yeah, it totally makes sense, and I'm so glad that you shared that, Robin, because we bring up the protective barrier. So when we all first met, when we you all started working with me, we went through my 10-week coaching program. It was called Revivify at the time, now called the Four Pillars of Breast Cancer Recovery, which we are going through the newest iteration of that program right now. And this week's lesson that's coming up is whose emotions are you holding, right? And it's talking about exactly what you just said, Robin. That you somehow feel responsible for making everybody else think you're going to be okay, whether you're okay or not. And as we've coached on so many times in our group over the years, we we have no control over how someone else feels, right? We cannot control other people's emotions. So I have a perfect example of this recently, as you all know, like I've been going through some respiratory issues and some pain issues, and as one of my kids asked me the other day, you know what was going on, or you know some test results that I had gotten, and as I shared them, they said, "Are you telling me the truth? And I was like, "Of course, I'm telling you the truth, right? Because no matter how many times I've said to them, I'm going to be transparent with you. I'm going to let you guys know exactly what's going on, because I'm doing so well. You know, they're thinking, "Are you keeping something from me? Right. So no matter how transparent I am, they they still have their own stories, whatever. Those stories, maybe, right? And one of my sons, his girlfriend, reached out to me and said, "How's this and that and the other thing going? Whenever I ask my son, he says, "I don't want to talk about it. So even then, I hear, "Okay, my son is worried, and he's not processing. He's not hearing. Like, even though I'm saying I'm doing great, which I am, he's still worked, right? We cannot control other people's experiences, and even before a breast cancer diagnosis, how many of you ladies spend a lot of time trying to control other people's emotions? Peacekeepers, yeah, uh huh, people pleasers, yeah, yeah, and so that not only is so important, but as I call that, the protective barrier, right? Once we get a diagnosis, we think we're protecting other people, but we're just putting up walls, and we're just we're create. If we're not transparent, we just leave space for other people to create more stories, right? And as I just shared, they're going to have their own stories anyway. But if we allow ourselves to be open, we can ask about those stories, right? We can say, "Why do you think that when I'm telling you I'm okay? Or if we're not okay, right? One of my sons said to me, "Mom, if it comes down to the end and you know it's the end, please tell me, because he wanted to do some like video interview, and I was like, "Well, do the video interview now? Because what if I don't know, right? When the end is coming, like let's do it now while I look cute. Still, you know. So, yeah, it's just a really interesting thing how much of our energy we spend trying to manage something we have no power over other people's emotions, rather than taking it as an opportunity for connection, and saying, "Are you worried? Tell me your thoughts. Are you losing hope? Are you afraid to say things to me? Because don't worry, I can take it. Right? We can really use what feels very scary as an opportunity to connect. And of course, if that comes to little children, that's a whole different thing, but for you know your children were older, Robin. You know, so depending on you know the mental and emotional state of of the person, but yeah, such a such a great point. Thank you for sharing all that.

Speaker 1 27:13
Yeah, I could go next. At the point I was diagnosed, I it was through routine screening, and I felt I was really healthy. So it totally blew me away that you know I felt like a death sentence as well. So to mentally feel I was healthy, to suddenly feel oh my time is up devastating, but through this diagnosis, I've learned about metabolic health and the strong connection between mind and body, and so one of the most significant things I've done to create a life that's better than before breast cancer is learning to reframe my thoughts, becoming aware that I had no control over circumstances, but the one thing I did have power over was how I choose to think about things, and it was just mind blowing how eye opening and empower a simple thing of reframing your thoughts. And the gateway for me discovering this was finding Laura's podcast, then digging even deeper by becoming a member. It was a whole mind shift from being a victim to thinking that breast cancer was happening to me, and I totally changed it that this was happening for me, and also learning along the way that two things can be true at once. That boy, it was you know can be a sucky experience, but oh my gosh, there was so much I got from the experience too. and it's a journey again. That word journey comes up, and and it's never linear. And the other thing I've learned is to let go of outcomes, Expectations and be in the moment and just trust that everything is everything will is happening as it's meant to be and yeah,

Laura Lummer 29:58
lots of shifts. Yeah,

Speaker 1 30:00
yeah,

Speaker 4 30:01
yeah, amazing. Thank you, Avril. Yeah, and Cher, you've been going through it pretty much since we started working together. It's not like you had one diagnosis and then we're on the other side. It was pretty continual. So, what do you think? Like in this experience, in this process, how is your perspective of getting a breast cancer diagnosis and living with a breast cancer diagnosis shifted over time? It's shifted incredibly. Like other people were saying too, it's it for me. It was really looking at the life circumstance and not having that dictate my decisions or dictate my want or need of control over those circumstances. So, what I've learned is really the you know taking the the foot off the gas pedal a little bit and just living in that uncertainty and knowing that that's okay. That there's just not one way to do cancer, or there's not one way to, you know, do a job or find purpose or things like that. That there's so many different ways to do that, and I just didn't. I was in a siloed view of what I thought my life would be, and I enjoyed my life. It was beautiful before breast cancer. It was, you know, was adventure and relationships and the love and support I have of my family, and everything, and friends, and then getting this diagnosis, and then not just being shell shocked and not knowing really what to do. So, after getting through, like other people have said, it's very survivor driven. You know, you make it through if they say you have four rounds or six rounds of chemotherapy. That's what you do, and you get you get to the end, and it's done, and it's over, and you go back to being the person that you were before. And so, what I realized coming out of all of that was that I was not the same person, but I didn't know what to do with the person that I'm becoming now. And so, then finding your podcast, Laura, and then being in the group and participating, it really showed me that I could trust myself and learn so many new things about myself that I didn't even know were there. And so, it was almost like a bringing back home to to me. And so, helping myself like in that way, and supporting myself with the the different coaching and the the mindset shifts, and just learning how to just be in a world where there's cancer also, but you're not dying today. That learning to live in that kind of framework is something that I'm still working on today. But being able to have the space and the the like I said, the trust in myself that I'll know I'll be able to meet whatever comes next. So it's definitely an ongoing practice. It's not something that's one and done. It's a choice I make every day.

Laura Lummer 33:04
Yeah, yeah, beautiful. And I love that, Sherry. As we talk about all the time, is

Speaker 3 33:09
this is

Laura Lummer 33:10
like going to the gym for your body, right? The more you go to the gym for your body, the stronger you get, the more fit you get, and if you stop, your body reverts back to couch potato status over time, right, and same thing happens with our brain, right? We're conditioned; we have the our our brains are wired a certain way, and when we start working on the tools and the skills to change our mindset, it's that showing up and consciously, intentionally deciding every day to implement those tools that continues to help our brain to move forward as that person we're becoming, and if we stop doing that, we very quickly slide back, very quickly slide back to old fears, old behaviors, old habits, old programming. So important, you know. Something that's always impressed me about this group is that no matter where everybody has been at, so we've got different diagnoses from DCIS to stage four. We've got different reconstructions, different surgeries, different processes. But you guys always show up for each other, and there's neb, there's always support. There's never comparison. Like I shouldn't talk about what I'm going through because Sherry's got a stage four, and that's so much worse, right? You guys have really created this bond and this openness, and I think I'd love to hear, you know, what that means to you being in a group. Because a lot of people say, you know, and I've even had people call and ask me before joining the membership and say, "Well, is there anybody with stage four? Because I don't think I can handle being in a group with people with stage four cancer, right? I'm like, "Well, that would be me, and so you know. But it's an interesting thing. How how can you be in a group with women who have metastatic breast cancer? For those of you who don't, and not find that frightening, right? Because it's not unusual to say someone with a stage four diagnosis would be another woman's worst nightmare who's had a breast cancer diagnosis. And then also for those of us who are living with cancer, how do we not look at other people in the group and say, "Well, shit, they've got it easy, right? Yeah. So, what are your thoughts on that? How do we come together as a group so beautifully and still benefit from group coaching when people are all over the board with their life and their diagnoses?

Speaker 2 35:33
Well, I'll start this because I only, I only, here I go, had stage

Laura Lummer 35:40
one breast

Speaker 2 35:41
cancer. Yeah, we don't

Laura Lummer 35:43
want to minimize. Yeah,

Speaker 2 35:44
no, I don't. But I think I had to overcome that because I, when we first started, and you know, whatever people had this people, all I had to say, and you helped me with this, Laura, to not compare, because the fact is we all have pois had poison in our bodies that showed itself as cancer, and I think I what I've learned is I can have compassion for you, Laura and Sherry, living with this stage four, while at the same time I don't feel at all diminished because I only, you know, in quotations marks had stage one. I've never felt that from anyone from any stage. I feel like we all, as a group, I I got called out a lot in the beginning because I would just be not share. I had to learn how to be vulnerable and talk about things, and it's the best thing that happened. But I think because each of us is trying to be the best version of ourselves, no matter what we came from, I feel like because of that, we cheer one another on. We suffer when someone suffers. There's an empathy that I just I feel for every single woman in this group and everything that we've been through. And I don't feel like it's a separate. There's not a competition per se, you know, but it's just we've all been through it, and no matter what it was and the stage, we all have made a decision to change who we are as women and become the best version of ourselves that we

Laura Lummer 38:01
can be. Absolutely, yeah. Thank you, Robin.

Speaker 4 38:04
I love that. For me, for me, I think that suffering. I mean, suffering is suffering, and pain is pain. So the levels and degrees. I don't think that matters whatsoever because everyone can identify if they're suffering, and everyone can identify what pain feels like to them. So, therefore, I think there's just a you know base level of understanding of where everybody's at. You know, it's a human human level, human emotion. And with this group, there's been a no judgment free zone the whole time. It's been amazing that you know you can show up and just share where you are, share what's hard, share share some wins, and just feel that community.

Laura Lummer 38:48
Yeah,

Speaker 4 38:48
and that you know that community that you don't even have to explain certain things. You can just you know give the points, let's say, of your specific circumstance. But there's like this general understanding and general compassion that there's like a safety net and like a comfort zone, and so you know with that there's the comfort, but then there's also for me there's so much inspiration too because every single woman is living their best lives, is looking to you know make maybe make some shifts in how they support themselves in a better way, or just learning all these things together. And there's so much that comes out of that. And I think there's a huge ripple effect of hope and and things that I take with me when the Zoom call ends. And so then I feel inspired for my day, or I feel inspired to do some more research on something, or you know, go walk by the the lake and know that you know Linda across the pond is doing the same thing somewhere too. So it's nice to be able to have that, just that that almost like sisterhood and and. That just keeps for me. It just keeps me going and keeps me accountable too, because I show up. I'm just

Speaker 3 40:06
in awe of Sherry and Laura and the fact, you know, the metastatic cancer. It's made me less afraid, right? Rather than because I see how you're thriving! I see the work that you do, and I, in my head, I know it'll all be okay. You know, like Sherry, I think you've said that. Whatever it, it will always be okay. So it's it's kind of like it's you guys are just so inspirational, and I just I it takes away the fear, right? I mean, it really does because I I look at you and I kind of think, oh my gosh, these ladies are amazing.

Laura Lummer 40:50
Thank you. I just want to

Speaker 1 40:52
thank the group. You know, recently, a couple of months ago, I had to have surgery, and for my hip issue, and I was pretty devastated. But not once I remember thinking, "Oh, good, I can come on the Zoom, the weekly Zoom call, and share just what I was processing, and not once did I think, "Oh, maybe I shouldn't, because Sherry and Laura, because they've got stage four cancer, won't feel sympathetic, or or think that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, because the hip surgery I have was having obviously isn't life threatening, but I knew that they would they would be there to support me, understanding that it was going to be like six months out of my life that was going to look different, and I don't know if I would have got through these last seven weeks of like being the first four weeks like on crutches, a lot of time just in bed, having those weekly calls to have you guys process me through it, I wouldn't have been able to handle it as well as I have, so thank you.

Laura Lummer 42:26
Awesome, awesome. Well, you do all the work, and that's the thing too. Deciding to show up and do the work again, going to the gym for the mind, right? Deciding I don't want to feel this way, so I'm going to show up for myself for the support I want

Speaker 1 42:41
again, this work that you have taught me, Laura, it's not just for healing from breast cancer.

Laura Lummer 42:51
No,

Speaker 1 42:52
it's across not just even physical physical ailments in life. It helps. It's helped me with relationships. It's helped me love myself. You know, it's the whole spectrum. It's not just about healing from breast cancer.

Laura Lummer 43:12
That's right. Yeah, that's right. Thank you, Evril. So to wrap this up, I'd love to hear you ladies share if you were to meet someone today, or if you were to put a message out into the world for somebody who was newly diagnosed or living with, and maybe a new diagnosis is metastatic breast cancer or living with cancer, what would you want them to know so that they felt that there was hope to still become whoever the woman is they want to become in their life. What would you want them to know? The

Speaker 2 43:44
first thing that comes to mind is you're not alone, and the second thing is not to forget to help yourself.

Laura Lummer 44:02
Yeah, I love that, Robin.

Speaker 2 44:04
Huh?

Laura Lummer 44:05
Yeah, I just love that because so many times I feel like isolation, or if again, if we're if we've lived our lives as people pleasers and circumstance moderators, it's very hard to receive, right? To allow support and allow help, so that's a really important point. But you were going to say something else. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 44:26
I think that's why for me, because I am queen people pleasing mentality of my desire to share that is, and and I feel like in October, I it becomes a natural thing to share because people are talking about breast cancer. So to share about it, so that I can tell people they're not alone. If it leads to being able to support people, then. I can be there to do that because I know without this group, I would I wouldn't be okay. Let's put it that I don't even know what to say, but the shifts that have happened in my life because of the ability to deal with the breast cancer and then learn that really, I can make a better life for myself. Really, I mean, it's you know, we really all have made a better life for ourselves since because or since we had breast cancer.

Laura Lummer 45:37
Yeah,

Speaker 1 45:37
my one word of advice is, it's not a death sentence, and if anything, when I was first diagnosed, I felt I needed to make decisions immediately. Time was running out, but that's not the case. Take time, evaluate. You know, listen to multiple opinions and listen ultimately to what your inner voice connect with your body. I used to be so disconnected from my body, and if anything, breast cancer has taught me I listen to my body more because inevitably it it knows it has the answers.

Laura Lummer 46:25
Excellent.

Speaker 4 46:26
That's what I was actually going to say too. Is the you know take a pause because I feel like once you get diagnosed, there's all this you know you're trying to learn this new vocabulary. You're trying to you know the doctors are telling you what the treatment plan is going to be and things like that. So I think just sitting in that that pause moment to know, like what Avril is saying, to listen to yourself too, and see what your thoughts are on the next steps. And I would also the second opinion, third opinion, look for the resources and the community when whenever whenever you're ready for it, that's the thing. I mean, there's so much information and so many resources, you know, that so many so many places that are here to support the men and women that are affected by breast cancer. And so I feel like when whenever that person is ready. That there's so much there available, you know. Whether it's obviously Laura, your podcast, or you know, just learning to live in that uncertainty too, and knowing that you can figure out what the next best step for you is. It just doesn't have to be this second.

Laura Lummer 47:37
Great, such a good point. Yeah, and that's the thing we can feel like we're drinking from a fire hose, you know. And and I think that like you've all mentioned this, make it get the information you need to make informed decisions, and then trust yourself and turn off the noise because everybody's going to have a thought, everybody's going to have opinions and and I think they all come from good places and places of support. But you've got to know what you can manage, and you've got to know when to say shush. You know, I've had enough. Yeah, such a great point.

Speaker 3 48:14
I think trusting yourself definitely. You know, and the time that I was diagnosed, there was a lot of clinical trials, etc. etc. And I remember thinking I didn't want to do them, but there was a lot of pressure to do them. And so, but I listened to myself, and I, I kind of said, no, I didn't want to do it. So, and I don't regret that. So it's it's it's interesting that I think you just got to really trust yourself and listen to your gut and what your gut is telling you.

Laura Lummer 48:48
Yeah, and I love that you said you don't regret that, Linda, because I don't know how many times I've heard women say, "What if I make the wrong decision? Right, and we we won't know if it's the wrong. We have to trust ourselves. Once you've made the decision, you say this was what feels right for me based on the information I have now, and then we don't want to go back and judge ourselves for it, right? We don't want to go back. Like I chose not to have radiation after my first diagnosis because, like we shared earlier, I was done, right? I was so done and exhausted. And when I asked why would I do radiation after everything has been taken out of me, and the answer was, "Well, it's just hospital protocol. That was not a good enough reason, right? And later, when I had a tumor recur under that arm, my new oncologist said. Well, you know, is that because you didn't do radiation? Well, we'll never know the answer to that, right? Because women who've done radiation get recurrences in lymph nodes, and so I could go back and beat myself up, which there's no way I was going to do. Right, so that is such an important thing. Trust yourself, make the decision that feels right, and then we just move forward because we never know, right, until we get to the other side, how that decision is going to work for us. Yeah, and I think

Speaker 2 50:14
one thing you said, Laura, was entrusting no one to turn it off or set the boundaries, because I do remember my mom was on a cruise when I got diagnosed, and it was a 10-day cruise. And in those 10 days, I read every book, listened to all this stuff, met with multiple doctors, made a decision. When she came back, I said, "I I told her what was going on, and I said, and I've made a decision, and it's very important that you are okay with that decision, and if you're not, you keep it to yourself. This is my decision, and I'm confident right now, and I don't want you to take that away from me.

Laura Lummer 51:02
Awesome! Wow! Yeah, that's powerful, right?

Speaker 2 51:07
Yeah,

Laura Lummer 51:08
yeah. Because

Speaker 2 51:08
you have to feel good going in to whatever you're choosing.

Laura Lummer 51:13
Absolutely, yeah. And there's so many times we've all worked on that for some situation or another, Linda. Whether it was your recent surgery, Avril, yours, Sherry, the many times in and out of chemotherapy, right? We've all had to, and Robin, with you, different medical issues. I all had to say, like, when you come to a decision, trust yourself and feel good about it. Choose to be, choose to feel good about it, right? That this is the right choice. Yeah, I think that's really great advice. Well, thank you, ladies, so much for sharing your stories, for sharing your insights and your experience. I know it's going to be valuable, and I love all the different perspectives because, hey, so many people need to hear it from from different angles, right, before it lands with them. So I thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 52:01
Thank you.

Speaker 4 52:02
Thanks,

Speaker 5 52:04
Laura. Thank you. future's at the door. Give it all you got. No hesitating. You've been waiting all your life. This is your moment.