Episode Overview

What happens when treatment ends, the scans are clear, and everyone expects you to feel grateful… but you don’t feel like yourself anymore?

My guest this week is Jondrea Phelps, a breast cancer survivor, author, speaker, coach, and founder of JP Empowerment and Flatties Wear.

After her breast cancer diagnosis, mastectomy, treatment, and being told she was cancer-free, Jondrea discovered something so many women experience but don’t always talk about: the “after” can be just as complicated as treatment itself.

We talk about grief, anger, fear of recurrence, body changes, identity, and the pressure to get back to normal when the truth is, you can’t go back to the person you were before breast cancer.

We also explore HypnoBreathwork®, the power of reconnecting with your body through breath, and why moving forward may be more healing than trying to return to the past.

You don’t have to pretend everything is okay just because you made it through. You get to feel what you feel, find your voice, and decide who you want to become next.

Meet Jondrea:

Jondrea Phelps is a breast cancer survivor, author, speaker, coach, and founder of JP Empowerment and Flatties Wear. After walking through her own breast cancer diagnosis, mastectomy, treatment, and the complicated emotional aftermath of being told she was cancer-free, she discovered that healing doesn’t end when the scans are clear.

Through JP Empowerment, Jondrea supports women navigating the “after” of breast cancer, the part that doesn’t always get talked about. The identity shifts. The grief. The anger. The fear. The disconnection from a body that may look and feel completely different. And the pressure to simply be grateful that you survived.

Using HypnoBreathwork®, Jondrea helps women move beyond only talking about their pain and begin to physically release what they’ve been carrying. Her approach is honest, compassionate, and refreshingly no-bullshit: you are not broken, you don’t need to be fixed, and you don’t have to pretend everything is okay just because you made it through.

She is also the founder of Flatties Wear, an adaptive clothing brand created to help women feel seen, comfortable, and empowered in bodies that have changed after breast cancer.

Jondrea’s message is simple: Your pain is not the end of your story. It can become a doorway back to yourself and into a life that feels like yours again.

Her book:

Sh*t Happens, Breathe Through it: Practical tips for the Challenges Life Throws at You.
https://link.amazon/B0jaexEW0

Her Website:
http://jpempowerment.biz/

Instagram:
@jondrea_Phelps

Women to Watch Panel:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-woman-youre-becoming-is-waiting-on-one-decision/id1461493937?i=1000784496397

Resources Mentioned:

Download for iPhone: 

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/kajabi/id1485646310

Download for Android: 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kajabi.kajabiapp&hl=en_US

Work with Laura:
https://www.thebreastcancerrecoverycoach.com/health 

Let’s Connect!
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💌 Join the Living Well After Breast Cancer Community → The Living Well After Breast Cancer Community

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Read the full transcript:

Laura Lummer 0:00
You're listening to Better Than Before Breast Cancer with the Breast Cancer Recovery Coach. I'm your host Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills, and the insights, and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis. If you're looking for a way to create a life that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started. Hey, friends! Welcome to another episode of Better Than Before Breast Cancer. I'm your host Laura Lummer, and I could not be happier to be bringing you this episode, kicking off the month of October, because I know that on this side, the after diagnosis side, the month of October can look very different for a lot of us, and so kicking off this month, I want to celebrate the strength and the absolute power that's within us, and I know how difficult it is to live with breast cancer, to have gone through a breast cancer diagnosis and treatment, and how sometimes you know the the scary stories that we hear throughout October. Sometimes the stories are very inspirational and powerful, and sometimes they make us just kind of shy away from the world for a month, because we're not ready to hear them, so I'm hoping that I can bring you more hope, more stories of strength, more belief in yourself. And as I can't, as I say this, it comes to me when I saw Anita Morjani just a couple of weeks ago. She kept saying that we are so much more powerful than we even know, and I want to bring you that message even stronger this month. And we're going to start off by bringing you this incredibly powerful woman, Jondrea Phelps. So let me tell you a little bit about Jondrea. She's a breast cancer survivor. She's an author, a speaker, a coach. She's the founder of JP Empowerment and Flatties wear, and after going through her own breast cancer diagnosis, mastectomy treatment, and the complicated emotional aftermath that we're also familiar with, and she being told that she was cancer free, she discovered that healing doesn't end when the scans are clear. Right through JP empowerment, Jondrea supports women navigating the after of breast cancer, that part that doesn't always get talked about: the identity shifts, the grief, the anger, the fear, the disconnection from a body that may look and feel completely different, and the pressure to simply be grateful that you survived. Using hypno breathwork, Jondrea helps women move beyond only talking about their pain and begin to physically release what they've been carrying. Amazing, her approach is honest, it's compassionate and refreshing, and there's no bullshit. You are not broken. You don't need to be fixed, and you don't have to pretend everything is okay just because you made it through. Jondre is also the founder of Flaties Wear, an adaptive clothing brand created to help women feel seen, comfortable, and empowered in bodies that have changed after breast cancer. So Jondrea's message is simple: your pain is not the end of your story; it can become a doorway back to yourself and into a life that feels like yours again. I'm so excited for you to meet this amazing woman. Let's do it! Welcome, Jondrea. Thank you so much for making the time to come on the Better Than Before Breast Cancer Podcast. I'm thrilled to be kicking off the month of October with you.

Speaker 1 3:34
Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Laura.

Laura Lummer 3:37
Oh gosh, yeah. So you know, I saw you at Powerhouse Women, and what month was that? When did we go to Powerhouse Women?

Speaker 1 3:45
August.

Laura Lummer 3:46
August. Okay. Mid

Speaker 1 3:47
August. Wow. Wow.

Laura Lummer 3:48
That's bias. Yeah. Wow. And you were on a panel of women to watch.

Speaker 2 3:55
Yeah. Which is super

Laura Lummer 3:56
cool, right? Super cool. Yeah. And for people who don't know Powerhouse Women, amazing conference about women who are just, you know, leveling up their lives, right? Looking, creating that future version of themselves. And you got up there and you started speaking, and and it really resonated with me because you and I, coming from this world of women who've had breast cancer diagnoses, or maybe are living with metastatic breast cancer like I am. There's just so much of the time, fear and playing small. And I work a lot with my clients on finding themselves and finding their voice and letting themselves come out and like be the biggest, best versions of themselves, which is super hard to do when we're dealing with the body image and the fear of disease and all that. But you were up there and you were doing it and you were speaking to it, and I was just like, I have to have you share your story on the podcast. So

Speaker 1 4:55
cute! Yes, I'm glad it could touch your heart. Yeah, yes.

Laura Lummer 5:00
So that's where we're going to start. I'm just going to have you share your story. Like, what happened? What have you been through, and what led you to where you are now?

Speaker 1 5:09
Yeah. Well, so it was the day after Thanksgiving in November of 2024 when I received a call from my doctor letting me know that the biopsy they took from my left breast was indeed cancer, and the good news at that time is that the breast cancer was in a single milk duct and it was stage zero, but in the milk duct it was stage two. So we proceeded to make the plans to have a lumpectomy and then followed up with radiation, and before that surgery, obviously a lot of things go through your mind. But I remember specifically when I heard the news that, you know, I'm sorry, Jondrea, you have breast cancer. I took a moment and closed my eyes and took a big breath in, and what I heard was you can't control that you have cancer, but you can control how you respond, and how you respond is going to determine the experience. And so I went with that. That was my intuition talking, and I lead my life with my intuition. It's something that I've been doing specifically for the last four years, and I said to my doctor, "I said, all right, here we go. Let's get her done. So four weeks later, I went in for a lumpectomy, and during my surgery, my surgeon had an intuitive hit herself. She had shared with me that typically they remove just one centimeter of breast tissue to test to make sure you have positive or negative margins, but something in surgery told her to take four, and so she did. And what that had revealed is that the breast cancer actually had spread. And two weeks after that, I went in for a mastectomy on my left breast, and it was discovered then that the cancer had spread to my lymph nodes as well, so I became stage two quite quickly, and my journey of treatment changed obviously, and I began to do chemo and hormone therapy, and after about four weeks of that, we discovered that my liver and my kidneys were not receiving those treatments very well, nearly shutting down. And so we stopped treatment and did some more testing and had some more scans, and that revealed that I actually have tumors in my kidneys that are protein induced and will cause your kidneys not to function very well, and they're not cancerous. Yep, they're not cancerous, which is wonderful, but we do have to be really careful with them because when they reach a certain size, they will burst and they will literally kill off your kidney. So we decided that's all we needed to do was monitor those tumors in my kidneys, watch my protein intake, and then we decided to try the chemo again. And within two weeks, once again, my kidneys and my liver weren't handling it. I also was enduring really horrific side effects just with the hormone therapy on tamoxifen, and we stopped the chemo, but then tried to continue that tamoxifen. And my kidneys were doing okay, and my liver were doing okay, and so we're like trying and trying. But the side effects for me just kept getting worse and worse. So finally, at month six, we decided that we were going to not do any chemo and no hormone therapy, and declared myself to be cancer free. We did a scan and everything, and everything looked wonderful. And at that point, all supports and things just stopped once I got to ring the bell that I was cancer free. So, and I found out that news one day before my 47th birthday. So, what a wonderful news! What a birthday gift, right? Wow! Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, and for me too, throughout that journey, you know, I have three daughters, and I'm also divorced and remarried. And just going along that journey with those daughters, and just thinking to them that you know this is something they're going to have to be very aware of. Breast cancer does not run in my family. I don't have any genes for it.

Speaker 1 9:40
I don't have any genetic mutations, so it was a real shocker for my family that I had cancer. It's cancer in general is just not something that we find in our family and in our family history even. So, just changing our lifestyle a little bit and being more aware, even though prior to. I'm a very healthy person. I eat very clean. I'm very careful. The products that I use in my home and on my body, but it just didn't matter. It just didn't matter. So yeah, yeah. An

Laura Lummer 10:15
interesting thing, isn't it? I really think that, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. I think that's part of something that makes a cancer diagnosis so hard to handle, because I will hear from so many of my clients, and I could say the same thing for myself. Nobody in my family ever had breast cancer. There was no history of it, and I was a healthy person, and the yoga teacher, and the personal trainer, and all the things, and all that really means is that it's a risk reduction, right? And I was 48 when I was initially diagnosed, and it was. I think that we start to believe that because we do these things means these other things won't happen to us. Like we're safe, you know. We're like playing tag, and we got home base, and it's like we're safe.

Speaker 1 11:03
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

Laura Lummer 11:07
And even though we make a lot of great choices in our life and chemical free as possible, we live in a a world with lots of toxins, a world with lots of stress, and we have to remember, yeah, how much. And were you diagnosed after your divorce?

Speaker 1 11:24
Yeah. So I did. I was divorced in 2016, and then remarried in 2020. And my divorce, honestly, was really mutual. We did. I have a wonderful relationship with my ex husband. We're truly best friends. Yeah. So it was really good. However, I will share that from 2013 to 2017, our family endured a lot of unexpected challenges and traumas. Actually, the year that I was getting a divorce, I was assaulted by a coworker, and I was wrongfully let go from my job and pursueded to sue them because I'm like what I had endured was it was just unbelievable and it wasn't okay it wasn't okay lost a loved one very tragically but then also when my children I were coming home from our family lake house. We came across a horrific situation where a car had hit a biker, and we were out in the middle of nowhere. And so I had to get out and try to save the life of that individual. And my kids witnessed that, and unfortunately, the individual didn't survive. So a lot of trauma happened in a short period of time, and that also is very triggering. To I have a history of anxiety and depression, and I think I didn't really truly process those emotions. To be honest with you, during that time, and when we choose not to face those emotions, allow ourselves to cry and to grieve and to be angry, but also allow ourselves to heal and move on, because maybe there's so much guilt if we do. I didn't do that, and I think that energy stays stagnant in the body, and it shows up in forms of illness and injury and what have you. So when I was diagnosed with my breast cancer, it's on the left side. I still have my right breast, but the cancer was on my left side. I've also endured two knee injuries on the left side and two surgeries there. And then also when I turned 40, Laura, this is crazy. I started getting toothaches on the left side of my mouth, and my teeth started falling out on the left side, so everything is like on the left side. So I started to get curious about more and more about how energy works and how we hold our emotions and where do we feel that in our bodies, right? And what I discovered for the left side, especially in the chest, is where we hold resentment for a caretaker that was a male figure in our life, and at that point, it really dawned on me. And I'm not saying I gave myself breast cancer or this is the cause of breast cancer, but I couldn't help not explore it and and process it. But I do have a lot of resentment with my father. He's an amazing man, amazing man, but very absent in our life. Meaning, he was a workaholic, and he made it very clear that his job came came before his family, and that made me very angry. And I've never addressed that with myself. I always just held that anger in to keep the peace, right? And so, during my breast cancer journey, I worked one-on-one with my hypnobreathwork coach. Her name is Francesca Sitma. She's the founder of Hypno Breathwork, and we started a 12-week journey five days after my mastectomy to help me process the feelings of not just the journey with cancer. But all the emotions prior, even in our childhood, and that allowed me to have so much more perspectives on how to go about cancer itself, how to help my family cope with it, but also how to have a better relationship with my fa my father as well. So yeah, yeah. Wow, that is

Laura Lummer 15:20
beautiful, and you know you make such an important point because there's so much, and and I find that for myself, you know, the two years prior to my diagnosis were very very stressful. I find that for a lot of my clients, and I'll ask them again with no blame or shame, "What do you think you got cancer? Right, and they will almost always say this job, this relationship, right? They'll have something in their life that sticks out to them as the first thing that they'll say to me, and I think that that's so important because, like you say, I don't say we gave ourselves cancer, but we can see opportunities for healing.

Speaker 1 16:03
Yes, we can

Laura Lummer 16:05
see that and say, you know what? If there was something that I could feel maybe was so stressful or so an emotion that was stored that's so inflammatory, this would be

Speaker 3 16:17
it. And because

Laura Lummer 16:19
of those, we can weaken the immune system, right? Stress is definitely impacting our immune system. Hidden resentments, right? Stuffed emotions, all of that. So powerful. So, was this a friend of yours already? Because you started right after the mastectomy, or did you?

Speaker 1 16:35
Yeah. Oh, she was

Laura Lummer 16:36
friend of yours already. Okay, she

Speaker 1 16:38
was. So, I met Francesca actually in 2023 at Powerhouse, and she led all this powerhouse woman through a hypno breathwork session, and I just that session gave me the release and relief that had been searching for for 30 years. So I mentioned earlier I had debilitating anxiety and depression since I was about 14 years old, and did all the things. I love my therapist. Did all the antidepressants. I even reverted to some illegal drugs and heavy drinking of wine. Not gonna lie, to help cope with that. I even went back to school at age 32 with three kids to become a clinical psychologist because I'm like I want to become the expert of my own mind because everything works up to a point, but I'm still not understanding why it continues to happen and why do I constantly have to pivot in order to cope with this anxiety and depression. And so when I went through that session with Francesca at Powerhouse, like I said, I finally received the release and the relief I had been searching for for over 30 years, and at that point I got hooked, hooked on hypno breath work, and decided that I wanted to become certified myself so I could bring this to my my clients too because I could tell through traditional talk therapy, we could get so far, and then it would stop. It would stop. So I decided to do that, become a certified hypnobreath coach, and have been using it ever since. And then, yeah, Francesca's she was such a beautiful support system for me throughout my cancer journey as well, and I think because of the work we had done even prior to my cancer diagnosis, like I've attended many other hypnobreath sessions by other coaches, and her also doing them on myself. I think it also allowed me to really thrive through my cancer journey and look at this cancer journey. It was truly a blessing. It was a blessing. Like I get teary-eyed thinking about this. Is that for me? My breast cancer did not break me, and it didn't show me that I was necessarily broken, but it really broke me open. And it's revealing this version of myself that has been so shoved down and told not to be shown because of you know societal norms or the expectations of others or what we've been conditioned to think and be and do and so I believe that that hypnobirth work has really allowed me to thrive through it and to have this gratitude for my breast cancer journey,

Laura Lummer 19:25
amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about hypno breath work and why do you feel like that can take you to the next level, even after talk therapy? What is it about that

Speaker 1 19:35
work? So, what I found different from talk therapy to doing hypnobreath work is talk therapy keeps us more in the conscious mind, and the conscious mind doesn't really hold deep down memories or limiting beliefs and stuff. And so, what hypnobreath work does, it's a specific breath pattern that gets us into our subconscious mind. And allows us to decrease carbon dioxide in our bodies and increase oxygen, and that creates also new neural pathways. So, what hypnobreath allows us to do is to get into that subconscious mind where 95% of our memories, limiting beliefs, creativity is. It allows us to access those things so that not only can we talk about it, but we can physically release the energetic blocks that those cause out of our bodies. Okay, and then it allows us to come into visionary, where those new narrow pathways need some direction, and how we give them direction is through envisioning. So we'll say, okay, this version of Jandria. What does she look like? What does she sound like? How does she feel? Where do you feel her in your body? And we envision them, and we feel it, and we embody it through this breath work. And so, because of that, I, your body will shake. You will cry. Some people will yell. I mean, it's it's incredible. It's an out of body experience. But like I said, when you come out of it, you have so much peace, and and it's calm, and you're confident, and you're like nothing is gonna stop me now. You know, it's very validating, very reassuring. Yeah, yeah. So amazing.

Laura Lummer 21:22
Don't you think that people often underestimate the power of breath work?

Speaker 1 21:26
100% 100% I heard this before. I'm like, you're a certified yoga instructor, right? Yeah. So am I. So am I. We do. And I remember going through training, and one of our master yogis said that the breath is the one and only thing that we can control. But once we control the breath, we can control the mind and the body. And so, eight years later, when I came across hypno breath work, I'm like, it just it just all came together. I'm like, well, this makes sense. This makes sense, and it just brought breath work to a whole nother level for me, so it is extremely powerful. And I and I look back at my life. You know, I was a competitive runner for 20 years, and our coach leading us through breathwork to help us power out of the starting blocks faster to ensure that we have energy at the end and that we can excel. You know, I remember being in labor. You know, with the kids and and and trying all the things that they teach in Lamaze class, you know, to help with the pain. And the thing that worked every time was the breath. It was every time I came back to it, and that's what worked. So there's just evidence throughout our life if we take a moment to reflect that yeah, the breath is so powerful. Why aren't we using it more? It's always there.

Laura Lummer 22:44
Yeah,

Speaker 4 22:44
yeah.

Laura Lummer 22:44
I just think, and I-that's such a great question. And I have to think that people just think it's so simple; it can't be that powerful.

Speaker 1 22:52
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's great way to put it. Right. It's so simple, and we take it for granted that we don't see the power behind

Laura Lummer 23:01
it. Right. I

Speaker 1 23:01
love that,

Laura Lummer 23:02
and whatever it is we're experiencing feels so strong, feels so impactful. Is like okay, breath is not going to be enough to deal with whatever this thing is that I'm dealing with, whether it's anxiety or depression, right?

Speaker 5 23:14
Yeah, but

Laura Lummer 23:14
yeah, breath work is so powerful. The only thing we can control, and the thing that's happening in this very moment, always brings you back to this moment,

Speaker 1 23:24
right? Like the

Laura Lummer 23:26
thread to the present time, yeah, yeah. And I, I remember when I was doing my yoga teacher training, and then we studied yoga philosophy with our master yogi for a long time, and you know when we were reading the Patanjali Yoga Sutras, and they start off with yoga is now, and he said, "Yoga is now. And if you guys understood this, we could all pack up and walk out right now because it would change your life. And I was like, "What? What? But over time and over the years, you realize what that means is like be present in the moment, right? Yoga is union, and we can't connect and be unified if we're not in the moment.

Speaker 1 24:07
Exactly, I love that. Yeah, and and being in the that's what I love about yoga too. It's like here in the Western world, we think it's just this physical practice, but it's really a way of living, right? There's the eight limbs of yoga, and I wish everybody would know that too. And I contribute also like the whole journey through cancer, and even in the past of some of the trauma, is like coming back to yoga, the way of living. There's all these different philosophies that we can go by, and it's it's just so beautiful. It really is

Laura Lummer 24:39
so beautiful, and I think in the Western world, so many people just associate yoga with the asana, with the movement in the classes, the classes. Yep, they just think of it as exercise, but it is a transformative practice. And you know, after I became a yoga teacher, I went to Ayurveda College, and I studied Ayurveda for three years. Yeah, and. It's just the whole science of it, all connected, all so beautiful. Connects us to the earth, to our breath, to to everything. Right? It's all about being very, very present to support our wellness and and just a healthy, happy life. Yeah,

Speaker 1 25:14
I agree.

Laura Lummer 25:16
Going back to what's simple.

Speaker 1 25:18
Yes, yes. Let's not overcomplicate things. You know. I agree.

Laura Lummer 25:24
So let's let's fast forward a little bit, and you come up on the stage as one of four women to watch.

Speaker 1 25:33
Yeah, apparently so. Why are you

Laura Lummer 25:35
a woman to watch, and how did you get there? How did you go from breast cancer diagnosis, all the trauma you just described to a woman to watch.

Speaker 1 25:45
Yeah, I think. Well, first of all, I just need to share that when I applied to be on that panel, I had no intentions to actually being up on stage. For me, just putting myself out there in that way, applying was my expansion moment. Like that's all I wanted to do was apply, you know. Because in the past I didn't know if I was really worthy enough, but also since having cancer, I have moments of having a hard time to plan for the future because every six months I'm getting that scan, and then then the mammograms, and my blood is being checked, and I'm in the oncology department every six months, and I'm just like, oh, it could come back, and then everything has to pause for a moment, right? So just even applying was for me an expansive moment, but I think like instead of using cancer as an excuse to not move or not do things or grow, for me it's the exact excuse needed to grow and to live even more. And I used my cancer journey as an opportunity. And during that journey, I realized that I didn't want cancer to define who I am. I didn't want cancer to choose my narrative either. I didn't want anybody else to choose my narrative. To be honest with you, and there were moments that during my journey I could-it was hard for me to actually be relatable to some of the things out there about breast cancer as well. And one of them was even just the word of survivor. Being a survivor, also being somebody who is a warrior, and I'm battling like battling. To me, it felt like there was hatred with it. I mean, with war going on in our world, it's over hatred and disagreements and stuff. And I just don't feel that feeds my body and my heart, my mind with positive energy to walk along cancer and get to know it, you know. But I'm gonna have some boundaries with it, right? Yeah,

Laura Lummer 27:49
definitely. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 27:51
So during that cancer journey, just having that mindset and choosing to choose my own narrative and choosing to use this as an opportunity to expand, but also not knowing where this is going to end, I got creative. And during my cancer journey, I discovered a problem that I run across: is that I can't find swimsuits that fit me because I don't do prosthetics, I don't have an implant, I can't get an implant. I couldn't have reconstructive surgery, and so during my cancer journey, I actually developed a swimsuit line that is going to be launching here in 2027. It's called Flatties Wear. Amazing. And yeah, and I think that journey, and just even the year leading up to the powerhouse moment here in August, just when you think you've expanded and you've done enough, there is always more expansion. There is always more upgrading, and so the powerhouse women community saw that. They thought, "Well, shit, how is she gonna? How is she gonna top that. Like during her cancer journey, she started. She wrote a book. She published a book. She had a successful newsletter. She was on nine different podcasts. I was being asked to be on in different events to speak. I created a clothing line for women that are flat chested. Like like what? How much? Like really, but with that, what people don't see behind the scenes is there are a lot of self doubt, and there is fear and things to overcome, and that's what I spent 12 months before this year's powerhouse event doing, and just rawly shared myself, broadly doing it messy, which was different for me as I used to be very much a perfectionist and a people pleaser, and this last year I let go of all of that, you know. And I just expressed it, showed, and it brought out a whole different side of me. Like physically, I look completely different than I did a year and a half ago, too. Like Lindsay, yeah, like I, I. Long, thick hair. I wore black all the time. You know, like I wanted to be a little bit like rebellious, but it just couldn't get there. And so when you saw me, I'm up on stage in a hot pink suit with no shirt underneath it. My gosh, with a mohawk, it's like what? Like that just shows that I have really evolved, you know, from that journey of facing the fears and finding that I do have more courage than fear within myself, and finding it to be comfortable being uncomfortable with things, you know, instead of looking at being uncomfortable as a red flag to stop and pivot. No, when you are comfortable, that is a red flag in your life, and you need to pivot. You know, so these are all things I've learned and have shared, and just continue to upgrade. And I look for it. Like, bring it on now. You know, let's do this. Yeah, yeah, I love it,

Laura Lummer 30:59
and I'm 100% in agreement with you. It's like nobody knows. We never, and it sounds cliche, but it's so true. Nobody has a promise of tomorrow.

Speaker 1 31:09
But

Laura Lummer 31:10
when we get a cancer diagnosis, that really lands. That comes home, and I say it lifts this veil of innocence that we have over us, thinking that we're somehow immortal, that we all have a promise of living to our 90s or something, and yes, at that point we can either lean into fear of death, and in doing so not live, or we can say, "Oh, hell no! I don't know how much time I have, but what do they say? I may not be here for a long time, but I'm here for a good time, you know. I love that happen as possible. Yeah. Oh, that is so

Speaker 1 31:47
awesome. Yeah. We

Laura Lummer 31:48
never know, right? We never know.

Speaker 1 31:49
We just don't know, and it could be. And that's the thing too. Like I feel even before my cancer journey, like every day I survived because at any time anything could happen to us in our life can be taken right too. So that's why I share with people is like you know what? Stop waiting. Just stop waiting to be ready because there's no such thing as being ready.

Laura Lummer 32:12
Yeah.

Speaker 1 32:12
When you're ready is when you're in the midst of what you've already like wanted to go after. But don't wait to be ready and and don't wait to have everything planned out. Either you don't have to have a staircase built in order to climb to get to the top of what whatever you are reaching for, right? Just take the first step. Take the first step. So yeah, yeah.

Laura Lummer 32:34
That's it. Doesn't have to be a zip line. Just one step. Just one little. Just one

Speaker 1 32:38
step. How do you? Since

Laura Lummer 32:40
this is going to come out, we're going to be the first podcast in October.

Speaker 1 32:44
Yeah.

Laura Lummer 32:45
How does October land differently with you now than it did before you were ever diagnosed?

Speaker 1 32:51
Cash. So October usually is the month of like birthday celebrations, like incredible and anniversaries in my family.

Laura Lummer 33:00
Okay.

Speaker 1 33:00
But now it it is it man I think about breasts all the time in October than ever for me. Is it your birthday

Laura Lummer 33:11
in October?

Speaker 1 33:12
No, it's not. But my kids and my husband and family members and my in laws got both of their birthdays are in October and their anniversaries. I mean, it's just-it's absolutely insane. But so that's always been it. But now I look like, oh, it shares another thing, and this is an opportunity to bring awareness to others and to give others a voice that maybe they don't have or they're scared to be heard. Let their voice be heard, and so that is a huge focus for me is just talking about it and advocating for it and being raw and real and not just about like getting checked. Okay, it is during the journey, but for me especially the after. The after was harder for me than the journey with cancer itself, and it still has its days, and that is my focus now. Especially in October, I usually like to kick off things, little groups and stuff for people who've been through cancer and they're sitting in this unknown. Like they should be celebrating, and they feel grateful, but they feel ungrateful because they don't feel like themselves, or they're trying to get back to the life that they had before breast cancer, but it's not happening. It just is icky, right? They they don't their clothes even feel icky. Their home even feels icky. Their careers may feel icky. And why is that? And so for me, October is giving women a voice and making sure that they don't have to be ashamed for feeling that way after having breast cancer, that it's real, it's real, and it's normal. It's normal. Yeah. So important, and it

Laura Lummer 34:46
goes back to what you said a couple minutes ago, which I again am completely on board with you about not using battle language and warrior language, and especially when I got my stage four diagnosis, I just really. Felt very strongly that there was a very different energy to focus on healing versus fighting, especially when it was my own body, right? It wasn't some virus or bacteria. It was my own body that was changing internally that needed some love, and I think that that this is it's so important because yeah, as those of us who've had a diagnosis now, we may have looked at you know the pink month of October before and been so inspiring, and those women are so brave, you know. And then we get a diagnosis, and I think we don't even see it coming until it's here, and then we suddenly are like, oh my God, this is one a little scary. Or you know, we we hear a lot about you know sad stories, right? They talk a lot about sad stories. They kind of yes

Laura Lummer 35:52
fear motivation to get people to get a mammogram or something like that,

Speaker 1 35:56
right? Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah,

Laura Lummer 36:00
and so I like what you said. I think that in that month, what's important is to hold space for those of us who've had the experience to be able to say, "I I'm angry, or "I'm frustrated, or "That's not how I feel, and I don't want to be a warrior. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 1 36:19
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. It it it since I've come out and shared my own personal journey with that, and I and I think it's I did share this at Powerhouses that you know last year when I came I was really lost, you know, and I had a lot to celebrate, right? But I just couldn't celebrate, and once I made that public, more and more people came forward and says, "I feel the same way, and they would tell me like it was a secret, and I was like, "Oh, honey, I'm so I'm so sorry. I feel for you, but I feel the same way, and it's okay. Like, here's what we can do together, you know. I agree.

Speaker 2 36:59
Yeah,

Laura Lummer 37:00
but it it is so important because there's no way you can go back. You can't not have a diagnosis. You can't not have had a part of your body removed that maybe is very important to your femininity, your experience as a woman in this world. You can't not you can't forget you went through chemotherapy or radiation and the changes that it caused. So it's such an interesting mindset of wanting to go back to normal. And I think about it kind of like in the terms of the upgrade, right? About when we're looking for expansion, is why go back to normal when we can go forward and become an even better version of ourselves?

Speaker 1 37:40
I love that 100% Like that to me should be the strategy through breast cancer. Yeah, any stage, any stage, or just anywhere in life. And instead of going, why is this happening to me? Why is this happening for me? You know, starting there. Yeah,

Laura Lummer 38:02
and that's tough. You know, for a lot of people, it's tough. It's tough to hear, like you said, you found that it was a gift, it was a blessing for you, or to say, "How is this happening for me? Depending, I think, on the stage or where someone's at in their diagnosis, they can really get ticked off. You know, you say, "Yep, they

Speaker 6 38:18
can. Yeah,

Laura Lummer 38:19
and I'll often say, if you're angry, it's okay. It's okay to be angry. That's where you're at. You know.

Speaker 1 38:24
Yes, but yeah, I agree. I think that,

Laura Lummer 38:27
and I, I don't know. Maybe you've seen this. I don't think I've ever seen this kind of laid out. But it's just like the process of grief, right? When we lose someone that's close to us, there's this year-long process, and the stages are clearly defined, and I really believe that's the same after breast

Speaker 1 38:44
cancer. I agree. I agree. Or just even after the diagnosis, like you know, even if people don't get the the sign that hey, I'm you're cancer free, you're good, you're good to go. I think that's just in general. Like you have permission to feel and think the way you do. You do. Don't deny yourself that. Don't deny yourself it. And we all are going to feel differently. You know, we are and stuff. Some people may feel like celebrating and amazing after the breast cancer journey, but some don't feel that way. Some feel it is a gift. You know, and they've learned. And some feels like no, this this is really hard. I don't like it. I don't want to give it gratitude, you know. And then when you talk about grief, it's like you you are grieving a version of yourself prior to this. And I always say this too, Laura. I think once you're a cancer patient, you're always a cancer patient because is there's no 100% guarantee, you know? If there was, like, why am I still getting scanned every six months and my blood checked? And I always will have oncology appointments every six months too, like, you know. So as an individual, we're also facing that. Like, okay, I I know there's a possibility of it's gonna come back. You know, and wondering is that ache something to do, or how? What am I thinking? What do that? What do I feel? Is that another lump? You know, it's it's oh, it's always there. And so when you have those things in the back of your mind, how how can you be the person you were before? And it is important to grieve the person you were before. It's important to love her and give her thanks too, you know. And it's okay to say, "Hey, I may love you and I'm grateful for you, but it's time for me to move on.

Laura Lummer 40:31
Yeah, yeah. It's and you know, Dr. Naisha Winters, who was my mentor for several years, was has always said, "You cannot get well in the same life you got sick in, and that it's very important to look at that and understand, you know, where we can move forward and support ourselves even more. And I think oftentimes in so many areas, like the people pleasing, is so common, right? The not using our voice, the staying silent, and it's understanding those things that helps us evolve out of that pre-diagnosis identity into that 2.0 version of ourselves.

Speaker 1 41:08
I agree. Yeah, yeah, I love that 2.0 version. It is. It is.

Laura Lummer 41:14
I love your story. It's so powerful, and I just appreciate you coming here and sharing it. And I want to share with everybody how to find you, and how. And of course, I'll put links in. But let's hear it from you. Where can we connect with you?

Speaker 1 41:28
Well, they can connect with me on Instagram. That is where I'm mostly present at Jondrea J O N D R E A underscore Phelps, or they can follow me on my website J P Empowerment, and there I have opportunities for people to purchase hypnobreath sessions that are already pre-recorded, and then also I have a blog that posts every week. It's called The After, so it helps people after they've had cancer that journey that help that happens that we're often never told about that happens. So yeah, that's where they can find it. There's a

Laura Lummer 42:05
whole lot of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 42:06
Yes, there is. There is. That's

Laura Lummer 42:09
really cool. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's a great idea. Awesome. Well, I want to have everything. Oh my gosh, it's been my pleasure. I could talk to you forever, but

Speaker 1 42:18
we could talk a lot. That's great.

Laura Lummer 42:21
Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, friends, I hope you got as much out of that interview as I did. Go to the links that are here. We're either watching this on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform, and I've also linked to the actual panel discussion that you heard Jondrea and I talk about that she did at Powerhouse Women. So check out that podcast as well. It's amazing. Her panel is so powerful and beautiful. And go to her website and check out all the amazing work she's doing. And keep your eyes on that flattyware brand and be ready for it when it releases in 2027. It's going to be absolutely amazing. All right, friends. I'll talk to you again next week. Until then, be good to yourself, and expect others to be good to you as well. Take care.