Episode Overview

Cheri lives in Duluth, Minnesota with her adventure partner, Brent, along the stunning shores of Lake Superior. A two-time breast cancer thriver—first diagnosed with Invasive Ductal Carcinoma Stage IIIA in 2019 at 39 years old, and again with Metastatic Breast Cancer in 2021 at 41—Cheri continues to live life with strength, joy, and purpose.

She leads an active, outdoor-centered lifestyle and seeks inspiration in nature, camping, fishing, hiking, and traveling. Cheri finds peace in collecting rocks, capturing her surroundings through photography, and nurturing deep connections with her family and friends.

With over seventeen years of experience in the outdoor and fashion industries in leadership roles, Cheri blends her professional expertise with a B.A. in English and an M.A. in Communicating Arts to share her story through the power of writing. Cheri is a published author whose work has appeared in Wildfire Journal, the only literary magazine created for and by those “too young” for breast cancer and the Boundary Waters Journal, a nationwide wilderness canoe country magazine. Cheri is also trained as a 2026 Hear My Voice Breast Cancer Advocate with Living Beyond Breast Cancer, a national nonprofit organization providing trusted information and a community of support to those newly diagnosed, in treatment, post-treatment, and living with metastatic disease. Cheri looks to alchemize her experience into advocacy and chooses to live intentionally every day to honor her health and healing.

Resources Mentioned:

Work with Laura:
https://www.thebreastcancerrecoverycoach.com/health 

Get The Breast Cancer Recovery Coach app:
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/breast-cancer-recovery-coach/id6720763813

Learn about the Becoming You 2.0 coaching program
https://www.thebreastcancerrecoverycoach.com/you

Follow Cheri:
https://www.instagram.com/chender1/

Episode #420
https://www.thebreastcancerrecoverycoach.com/420

Wildfire Magazine
https://www.wildfirecommunity.org/

Boundary Waters journal
https://www.boundarywatersjournal.com/

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Read the full transcript:

0:00
You're listening to better than before breast cancer with the breast cancer recovery coach, I'm your host, Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills and the insights and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis if you're looking for a way to create a life that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started.

0:33
Hey friends, welcome to episode 459

0:37
of better than before breast cancer. I am really excited to share a special guest with you today. My guest, this is actually her second time here on the show. She was originally on episode 420 with her physical therapist, Monica kasami, and she is amazing. Sherry has been a client of mine since 2020 back when I offered a 10 week program called revivify, and Sherry's story is amazing. She was diagnosed very young. She has made incredible changes in her life, and her story is so inspiring. So I'm going to share a little bit about her history with you, and I'm going to jump right into this interview so that you can hear Sherry's perspective on building a life that's better than before breast cancer, really, that's what she's done, and I wanted her to share what her thoughts and steps were towards making that happen. So Sherry Henderson lives in Duluth, Minnesota with her adventure partner, Brent, along the stunning shores of Lake Superior. She's a two time breast cancer thriver, first diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma stage three a in 2019 at 39 years old, and then again with metastatic breast cancer in 2021 at 41 years old. Sherry continues to live life with strength, joy and purpose. She is an active, outdoor, centered person. She seeks inspiration in nature, in camping and fishing and hiking and traveling. She shares incredible pictures of fishing out in ice and snow. She's my hero. Sherry finds peace in collecting rocks, capturing her surroundings through photography and nurturing deep connections with her family and friends with over 17 years of experience in outdoor and fashion industries, in leadership roles, Sherry also blends her professional expertise with a bachelor's degree in English, a master's degree in Communication Arts, and she shares her story through the power of writing. Sherry is a published author whose works have appeared in wildfire Journal, the only literary magazine created for and by those quote, unquote, too young for breast cancer. And she's also been published in Boundary Waters journal, which is a Nash nationwide Wilderness Canoe country magazine. Sherry is also trained as a 2026 hear my voice, breast cancer advocate with living beyond breast cancer, which is a national nonprofit organization providing trusted information and a community of support to those newly diagnosed in treatment, post treatment and living with metastatic disease, Sherry looks to alchemize her experience into advocacy, and she chooses to live intentionally every day to honor her health and her healing. I think you're going to love her story. I love her story. It's inspirational, and I'm going to share it with you right now. Meet Sherry Henderson, hey, Sherry. Welcome to the better than before breast cancer podcast for the Is this the third time, second time, second time. This is second time. I for some reason I couldn't remember, I know we did with you and Monica. And I was like, Wait, didn't we have something before? But I think what it was is we talked about sharing your story before, yeah. And you'd said, you know, give me, give me a minute. Let me get a little further along in the story before we start talking about it. So like I was ready at the time. Yeah, which is, I love it, right? Which is ready? And what a I think this is another part of your journey, right? So instead of trying to make me happy and accommodate my schedule that you're like, you know what, I'm not ready and listening to yourself and doing what felt right to you at the time. So you know, I've talked to you multiple times about sharing your story, because I think you are so inspired. You are so inspiring. I love just I mean, your personality, in and of itself, is inspiring, but what you've done for yourself and the way you have worked through some really hard things to create the life that you love and to pursue your dream and to live your dream, and even in living the dream, still doing the work, because it's not like we ever really arrive, right? So obviously I give an introduction to you, but I want to hear from you, and I know everybody else want to hear from you your story. Let's talk about where you were at, but not just where you were at, like this. Is my treatment. This is what happened. But like, Where was your life at when you found out you had breast cancer? And what was the evolution of everything from that point?

5:10
Such an evolution? You know, I first felt my lump myself. I found it when it was a cold January, winter day in Duluth, Minnesota, and I had finished shoveling because we had a snowstorm, and I was laying in bed at night, and just like rubbing my chest because my muscles were really sore, and I felt this lump that just was not there months before. And so I knew that there was something there. And so when I had that investigated, and you know, the primary care doctor said, Oh, you're too young for any kind of this to be an issue, but we'll refer you to the breast clinic just in case. How old were you? Of course, I was 3939 so I thought I was four months from my 40th birthday. So I thought, oh my gosh, 40 is going to be what I have to overcome and deal with. And then I got breast cancer, and 40 was like a breeze, and I was so happy to turn 40. So it's amazing how that perspective shifts so much, right? But the breast cancer diagnosis found me working really hard people pleasing. I'm a I call myself a recovering people pleaser now, but just like ignoring myself, like years of ignoring myself, abandoning myself, I was very active. My partner and I, we do a lot of fishing and camping and hiking and adventuring in the wilderness. That's something that we really enjoy together, and we did that before cancer. I ran marathon. So you know, constantly running, my poor body was inflamed, you know, looking back at it now, but just, you know, thinking I was living my best life at the time, but just not knowing all the things that you know I know now, looking back, but just was rocked by, you know, this diagnosis and that, like, Oh, my body has betrayed me, you know, like, I don't feel sick. So how can I have cancer? I don't look sick, I don't feel sick. And it wasn't until I started the treatment that I really started feeling sick. And so learning, like the sick identity, what that means, or like, what a healthy identity is like. So over the course of years, just trying to survive the treatments and all those kinds of things, but not really, not really having the space or the time to focus on really what was going on and how this was all affecting me.

7:35
Yeah, and I was gonna say you had shared a story with me at one time when we started working together early on about how you would go to radiation on your lunch break. And then remember when you told me that I was like, What the hell are you talking about? Right? Because here's the thing, you share the story. You're like, you know, we love the wilderness. I'm active. You think you're living your best life. But then when people start asking you questions about what you're doing, how you're treating yourself, and you refer to it so much about how self love can be so transformative. What are like let's try to help people understand when you're looking at your before or during diagnosis, to where you've evolved, to where does self love play a role there? So like, what does it actually mean to you? Now, what did you used to think it meant?

8:27
I used to think it meant massages and bubble baths and and, and, you know, walks on the, you know, walks on by the lake or something, and that still walks by the lake, I still feel like is an act of self love, but now, everything that I've done and changed with the root cause of that was the self love. It was because I could finally, you know, I let that little girl out that was caged inside, you know, and I started listening to my the voice within. And started, like, listening to my trusting my own voice, like through the different decisions that I had to make with treatments and things like that, really gave me confidence in myself, whereas before, I looked for outside assistance or guidance and everything like, what do these people think? Or, you know, do all this research and everything like that, but truly listening to myself and caring for myself is what I feel like self love is now. It's like giving myself, you know, everything healthy and energetic and vibrant and intentional that my life is now all comes from self love, because if I don't love myself, then I don't give myself the things that I need to to be healthy, to feel good, to be inspired and live

9:51
with cancer. What do you think are some of the biggest like, how do you go from being a people pleaser to practicing self love? And it really ought. Authentic way. What was the first step? Do you remember? Like, how did you start to go? Like, when we talked about Sherry, you have a life threatening illness and you're taking a break at lunch so you don't inconvenience anybody. What's happening? Right? How do you go from that person to who you are now?

10:16
First, the awareness to just breathe with myself instead of, you know, covering, like, covering time up with things or like actions, so like, whether I am, you know, keeping myself too busy to even think about how I'm feeling, or, you know, things like that. That really, that really helped start that. But I do remember when I had finished chemo and surgeries, and I found your podcast too, and I joined the revivify program for the first time. And that what to me stuck out was the writing a letter to my old self that got me on the trajectory of like, kind of building micro changes over time. So starting that letter is like acknowledging that I'm not judging who I was now versus who I was then, and judging myself accordingly, because I kept falling short. You know, I would think to myself, I've run marathons and now, you know, I can't walk down the street because the chemotherapy is so much that the fatigue is so great, and I can't I feel like I have lead weights on my legs and I can't walk, or the surgery pain was so bad, so it's like all those things, like, over time I was and slowly, like time really helped. So the not judging, and then the allowing myself to kind of say goodbye to my former self and embrace the person that I am now, or that I was then, or, you know, so there's so many different versions, but that really, like the letter was a real like signature to kind of reach back inside and kind of figure out who I am now. And it's okay to let that person go and to let that life go and see where what happens now. So it was really that, and then building on, you know, the different programs honestly true. Let that you've, that you've put out like the becoming you the 168 hours in a week, like the model, like identifying the thoughts, like those things really train my brain, emotionally as I was getting better physically from the surgeries and all that, so that, like, worked together, kind of in tandem, just To create like health. But it didn't happen overnight. It was over the course of years and years and years. But it just, what gets me now is how those, like small things at the time that seemed small add up and consistent over time. Like creates such big change, such big change. Like in with the like, my lifestyle, like the nutrition, adopting the ketogenic lifestyle, that really, like, opened up a whole new world, and was absolutely life changing for me, because that was, you know, I was, at the time, so swimming in seas of nausea, you know, that's all I could see. Like the whole, my whole world was in, like, yellow sepia, because the chemotherapy that I was on was just that I'm still on was so bad and that I just, I couldn't see beyond the nausea and everything. And, you know, working on cutting carbs, like it was an instantaneous, energetic feeling better, and that totally transformed my health. I feel

13:45
like, yeah, and it was so interesting, right? Because we had conversations and about how I don't know old wives tales, right? That we're always told when we're nauseous to eat some kind of carbohydrate, as if carbohydrates act as a sponge inside of our intestines, and they're going to soak up anything that makes you nauseous. And it's like, that's not really how nutrition works, right? But it sounds right. And when you're nauseous, thinking about eating something high in fat did not sound great.

14:14
That's right, exactly right. And I thought that. I totally thought I even said it so many times, like, the chemo is really acidic, and so then I need some carbs to soak that up so that I feel better. And in my early stage diagnosis, all I could eat were like pizza rolls and Diet Coke, yeah, and that's what I ate. And so now, when I have chemotherapy every five weeks, I fast beforehand, and then when I start eating again after the chemotherapy, I have low, you know, no carb or low carb. You know, the ketogenic lifestyle, so that it's like this, you know, the therapeutic ketosis and everything and my body operates 1000 100,000, times better than it did with the pizza rolls. Endless. Soaking up the bread and the pizza and things like that. So that was a huge shift, yeah, yeah.

15:07
And I'm so proud of you. Yeah, it was. I think sometimes it gets to the point where, like, Okay, this is so bad, I will just try anything. Let me just try it, right? I remember saying, You know what? It can't make it worse. It isn't going to hurt, so maybe we try and see if it helps, right, right? But what are the things you mentioned? So you mentioned the becoming you program, and that was something we did inside the membership, like people can do it on their own down, but it's, it's simple but a profound experience, and that program, I think really did shift the direction of your life, right? And you have become somebody that, I think that you always wanted to be as a result of that. Tell me a little bit about like and I think I want to emphasize this, because, you know how I'm all about the thought work, right? I mean, the food and the exercise all it's great. It's fun. I love it. It's interesting, but the thought work is literally profound. It is the thing that will change everything. And so tell me how your life shifted, and what it was when you were going through the becoming you part of our program.

16:17
It allowed me at that point, so when I was at that place that I was doing the program I had already there was building blocks that were already in place. And so I went. I was in a really good space of like creativity and things like that. And at the time, I was working on getting medically retired, which I am now, and I stopped working, which opened up that incredible space to allow me to change my diet and to start looking at, you know, the mindset and everything too. I had the time to do that. And, you know, with the becoming you, it really showed me like who I wanted to be, that that future version, you know, of myself that like I wanted to start expressing myself through writing. I've always loved writing, but just haven't given myself that time over the years to do that, and I was away enough from some of the traumatic medical health crises that I've had over the last seven years with breast cancer, and then obviously metastatic breast cancer. And so I had that space and time to kind of look back, and then I could start. I felt like I was healing enough where that I could share more about my experience through writing and the becoming You really made it clear that that's a direction that I wanted to go in without, really, you know, thinking that, Oh, I, you know, I'm want to be a published author or something. It was really more of an expressive,

17:53
more of an expressive experience, I guess.

17:57
And so I was doing the wildfire writing community at the same time, the wildfire, wildfire journal is the young women, you know, for and by women that have breast cancer and was able to start working on, you know, getting published in there with different stories and and things like that. But then it turned into such a healing experience. But I really was able to target all that from the program and from, you know, just listening to myself and trusting myself. And I feel like the program just gave me the space and the support to do that. So that was, like, for me, a really inspiring experience too, because then that, like connected me back to the writing that I lost over the course of my life.

18:52
Yeah, yeah. And so during that eight week period, you did write an article and it did get published.

19:00
It did, yes, yeah.

19:02
And how many times have you been published since then?

19:06
A lot more than that, which is super exciting,

19:10
super exciting. Yeah, that is so great. And the reason I just I love to share that, because I'm so happy for you, and you're an amazing and talented writer, but you've also put a lot of time and energy into that, like you put a lot of time and energy into developing it. And the reason I like to point that out is because, as you know, because we worked together for a long time now, revivify what you mentioned was my 10 week coaching program back in 2020 right? That definitely evolved into the four pillars of breast cancer recovery and then evolved into a membership and all that. So it's been a while, but I think what it one of the messages that I've carried through threads of whatever it is I've created, is we get so stuck on the going back to normal, back to the way things used to be, that we miss perhaps the opportunity. Energy to become even better, right? Something even better. And that's why, really emphasizing that, I think you're kind of blushing over there, but it's like, yeah. I mean, you were diagnosed with a serious diagnosis, stage four, metastasis. It kept coming back. How many recurrences did you have? Oh, a lot. Yeah, a lot. But you made a decision to continue to live, to continue to pursue something you weren't saying, When is when am I going to be done so I can go back to my job? You went through some really scary things. And you said, okay, you know what? This is the dream life like this is really the life I want to move to. And you mentioned creating space or having more space, but you really, again, were very intentional about creating that space for yourself and going through some hard steps to be able to get there to have that space. What would you tell somebody who is whether it's metastatic breast cancer or they're just going through treatment or coming back from treatment about the importance of making space and not filling all the time. Because you said I would fill all the time, so I didn't have time to think about what was going on. What would you tell somebody?

21:14
Yeah, that's, that's a really good point, the space. I mean, now I can, I know that space is everything, even if it's, you know, because I find myself when I'm sitting in the chemo chair that can create space for myself by just, you know, not looking on my phone, but just being in the moment. And, you know, even, even when the chemo is pumping into my vein, you know, from the from the machine right next to me, it's like, you know that's still space in the mind when you're still and how important it is to like space for me, space equal trust in myself and equal like, like an getting back to the anchor of myself. So even if it's like in the car on the way to an appointment, maybe turning the radio off and just being quiet as you kind of center yourself as you're driving or, you know, obviously taking a walk or something like that, to the create some space, but like, kind of like not filling the time with so many things that are back to back to back to back, even Like that was like a first step for me was just like, maybe not saying yes to everything, and, you know, realizing that I needed time to digest whether it's news or what to do next, or what program I want to do next, or what Article I want to write now, or Something like that. It's just having that just that quiet, and even if it's a couple minutes, like, it doesn't have to be, you know, a right, like a writing retreat for two days or something like that. It can be a five minute practice or a two minute practice or but like, I feel like once you start stretching that muscle, then you can this space just opens, and things are more open, and the energy is flowing better, and it just, it feels better. I feel better with space.

23:14
Yeah, you said, you mentioned a couple of times trusting yourself, and it, I think is a very common thing that when I come across a woman who's had a breast cancer diagnosis, they are people pleasers, right? Very common. When I ask people what their life looks like, I'm the rock. I'm the fixer. I take care of everything. I make sure everybody's got everything. I make sure it's all good, which is totally imaginary, because we can never make it all good, right? That taking on actually just really more than we have the capacity to take on. How do you move from being a people pleaser to trusting yourself?

23:54
Well, the space was a huge part of it,

23:57
and then kind of as I was going through treatment and making decisions, I would kind of like think to myself, because I feel my intuition kind of in my sternum, which is ironic, because I also feel stress and everything like that. I feel that in my sternum too, but I feel like an openness, like if I'm trying, if I'm trusting myself, like I think about a decision and and just give it a beat to see how I feel about it. And it's like, usually I can tell, like, Okay, this way or that way, or, you know, things like that. And then building that confidence over time that really helps train that. Because I wasn't trusting myself, because I was looking outward, I was, you know, like I said, ignoring myself and but not even knowing that that's what I was doing and being so invested in, you know, my relationships and things like that, which I still am now, but I give myself that validation and that that same energy too, which I didn't do before, and so now that's that's a different like I've. Morphed into somebody now who gives herself the space and gives herself time and really cares for herself in new ways. And I can see that reflected in my PET scans. I see that reflected in the way I'm living my life, and the fact that, you know, I'm able to manage living with cancer. So that, to me is, I mean, that's everything. And I realized, too, what really helped me was that I didn't have to wait until I was either no evidence of active disease, or, you know, once things were better, then I could start that or then I could, you know, live well, or then I could have that experience or something. It's like when I when I started thinking that it's now that I'm living it's now that I'm being present, like I can find peace now, even when I'm super devastated because I had progression or something like that. Or I can, you know, still painful things happen, even though now I'm living with, you know, no evidence of active disease, which is absolutely amazing, amazing. So love it. It's just, you know, it's a constant, like, up and down, up and down, you know, of life and circumstance. But I've learned through the thought work that it doesn't matter what the circumstance is or what the outside world is, I can keep my inside world peaceful. And I didn't know that before. I always thought I had to reflect what I saw around me, and that was one of the big shifts that now allow me to live the way I'm living, is that, you know, I now can have and carry that sense of peace regardless of what the outside circumstances are, which is not anything I could fathom. You know, 567, years ago, yeah, yeah.

26:53
And I think too, and I'd love to hear your opinion, it's like, not only life is like that, but when we get a breast cancer diagnosis, it's definitely like that there's so much external information, and we're being told what to do all the time. I think, I firmly believe that part of the trauma from a breast cancer diagnosis is the powerless feeling that comes along with being thrown into a system that you don't know what to do, and you want to trust and believe, and it's very hard, I think, sometimes, to trust our own intuition, to even get in touch with our own intuition. Listen to that little voice inside of us, which you've made the point I think fantastic a couple of times, is we've got to take space for ourselves and have some quiet time to be able to do that, which I think we we get engaged in the rat race. And think that if we get out a planner, that means we have to fill every minute, whereas my goal with the planner is to have as much white space on it as possible, right? Drop stuff off, yeah, we stopped doing all the things so that we actually have time. But do you think like moving into trusting yourself even is a process, right? Because you mentioned something you said as I started to build confidence, and I think that's an important thing. Do you remember about can you think of a time when in your situation, like, you know what, I feel like this. I'm being told one thing, but I feel like this, this is what my intuition is telling me, and you trusted it and it worked out. And you're like, Okay, build a little bit of confidence. Maybe the next step. Is there anything that comes to mind when I ask you that

28:36
yes, and a lot of it does stem from like, medical trauma, like, when I'm in the hospital and I didn't receive the care that I felt like I should or like, being responsible for my own pain and advocating for myself. That built that muscle, the advocating muscle of like, having to, like, set the alarms on my phone to make sure that I got my pain meds on time, and, you know, those, those kinds of things. So it's like as much of a hardship as that was, I learned, like I can rely on myself to meet my needs. But that took time, you know, and that took, you know, over the course of, you know, that built up, then my muscle for for medical decisions and things like that. But then also, like when I was working on the different, you know, working with insurance companies and, you know, with medical bills and things like that, like knowing that I am capable enough to deal with all these, like, intricate systems that are not intuitive whatsoever, and are tough and difficult, and when you're feeling sick and those kinds of things like that, built that over time, like in different ways, so in different circumstances, that built it up over time. And then the trust just got stronger and stronger, and then it was really me. Have, you know, trusting the universe too, like and being, you know, open to things, and trusting that you know that I'm I'm going to be okay. You know, trusting that this is temporary, trusting that you know this chemotherapy is going to make me sick for five, seven days, and then after that, I'm going to feel better, even though I can't see that now. Yeah, so that really helped. And and with the time, you know, now I've been living with metastatic breast cancer for five years, or over five years, which is absolutely crazy. And there's a nutrition there, you know, a cumulative attrition, I think. But then there's also wisdom that comes from living with cancer for over five years.

30:49
What? What would you say is probably one of the most profound lessons that you say, I have this wisdom. How do you look at life differently as a result of having lived and managed cancer for seven years and living with metastatic cancer for over five years?

31:06
That's a juicy question, because I don't feel like, you know, with breast cancer or just metastatic breast cancer too, it doesn't like just land at once. It like unfolds over time. So there's like, it just keeps going and going and going in different ways. But if I had to boil it down, I think a big thing is being present in your life, regardless of what the circumstances are, and that you can hold joy and grief in the same hand at the same time, and I learned that from, I mean, from Laura McGregor, who was one of the first people that I saw online with metastatic breast cancer, and she's passed away, but she she taught me then how, you know to hold both joy and grief, and you know there is the power of the and you know whether You can be grateful and you can be in grief, you can there can be devastation and it's beautiful at the same time, but that's the and, and that you don't have to wait until, like, delay happiness or delay things. It's like, no, it's right now, regardless of, you know, if I can't, you know, there's times where I was laying in bed, and all I could see was the sunlight come filtering through the blinds onto my face, and I couldn't go outside or anything like that. But that was enough at the time. It was just like, you know, and until I could go out and enjoy nature again, I could look at photos of people that were enjoying, you know, that were posting beautiful pictures, and like, you know, was borrowing hope from them until I could do it myself. But it's like, so there's regardless of like, how bad things are, there is always whether it's just even a breath that makes that moment like more livable, and I choose to want that, instead of, like, being in the suffering, because I was in the suffering for so long and I did not know how to get out. And it was those everyday, like small little steps of, you know, maybe taking five minutes of space here, or breathing just a deep breath or something that that built up, those micro changes over time, totally built up, and now, you know, I'm in this huge like trajectory that I never thought I was possible back then.

33:35
Yeah, yeah. So amazing. And I think that that's a really important thing, because so many people want to go from point A to point B right now, and when they don't achieve it, it's frustrating, and they're like, I can't do it. I can't do it, but it never works that way, right? Just like you said, it's layers, and it's one step at a time, and more importantly, it's showing up consistently, right? And this is something I've watched you do for years. You keep showing up for yourself. You keep showing up, you keep doing the work. You keep facing the stuff that is really difficult and using tools, which I think is an important thing, like we want to, we're wired one way, right in our life. We want to maybe have other skills, and we think we should be able to just go from where we are to where we want to be. But if we don't have the tools to help us think differently to get there, it's not going to happen. And then each one of those tools is one small step that moves us closer. And like you said, you never know how you're going to get somewhere until you get there and you look back and you go, Oh, that's how you do it, right, right?

34:45
Yeah, it's so true, yeah. And, and it's living authentically and being vulnerable, because to me, I was I prided myself on, you know, almost like having a wall and being the go to person for everybody else, but not allowed. Allowing everybody else to be there for me, and opening, you know, opening myself up, and being authentic about it. Because I, I've heard these things talked about, but I was not in the right mindset to have it apply, you know, to apply it to my own life at the time, either. So it's the small steps, but it's also then, you know, like having the time and and like speaking to yourself differently, or speaking to myself differently, that's like, instead of, you know, I was able to change that, like harsh voice to a more kind voice, and that really, you know, helped too, but it was the being authentic piece and being open to being vulnerable too, that helped, and like, again, with the with the steps and everything so that all kind of work together to get to a place that's amazing and feeling good. And, you know, being intentional, yeah,

35:58
and you bring up a big trigger word being vulnerable. If I had a dime for every woman I've coached who said I don't want to be vulnerable or I don't want to see myself as weak and vulnerability equals weak. How much strength does it take to be vulnerable?

36:17
So much strength,

36:19
right? Yeah,

36:20
so much strength.

36:22
And why don't we ever talk about it that way? Right? Why do we say, oh, being vulnerable is weak. Being vulnerable is an act of strength and courage, because it's hard.

36:33
One of the hardest things that I've I've done is is, you know, then, to show people what I feel on the inside, bringing that to the outside, because that wasn't something that I was comfortable doing. It was not something that I generally did. So I was out of practice. I had to learn how to do that, and it was so uncomfortable. And it was having to do that in my writing too, because it was like, you know, I want things to be polished, or, you know, things like that. But at the same time, it's like you're writing from the messy middle. I'm not, I'm not ever, you know, I'm not complete now. I'm not healed. I'm not, you know, there's so much to learn still and grow and things like that. And so it's like just really sharing from wherever you are, yeah, like, I find that that's that seems to be more powerful than having something that's like a polished piece, where it's like, okay, well, how did you get there?

37:31
Yeah, exactly. You know, that's, that's what we even before we started recording, that we talked about, it's like, we can talk about what's hard, right? We can talk about the painful stuff we went through, because we're not kidding anybody, anybody who's had a cancer diagnosis, anybody who's living with it, anybody's gone through treatment, we're not going to kid around and act like it wasn't hard, that it isn't painful. You know that it isn't something, and you use this word repeatedly, which I love, that you've got to be really intentional about really intentional, about moving forward with things, because one of the things that comes along with practicing allowing vulnerability is allowing yourself to receive. Right when we're people pleasing, we're never allowing ourselves to receive. But I think one of the things that people don't realize is in people pleasing, you're trying to control an external environment to make you feel the way you want to feel inside, right? Instead of allowing yourself to feel that way and letting that external environment take care of their own stuff, because they're all grown ups, right? Yes, but how is that different for you to practice receiving, receiving care, receiving space, receiving accolades, receiving opportunities, right, allowing yourself to drop those walls and say yes, like, I invite this into my life.

38:55
It's been so freeing. And I mean, like you said, openness, like I feel, you know, once I really committed to being open that opportunities are coming my way, just good energy, different things like that, I feel like that is just really powerful, just to allow all that too. So it once I, you know, it was really, really hard for me in the early stage, you know, when my co workers and friends put together a meal train and things, you know, even that was like, hard to accept and but then it's like, you know what? You know, I started to see, you know, through the different programs too, that it's them, you know, people want to share their love and their concern and their care. So I, you know, I want to let them do that. And so that was a practice too, because that was not that was so uncomfortable for me. But even now, I have, you know, friends that drop me off at chemo, pick me up or come with me to hydration, and that. Feels, you know, special, and I feel loved, and you know, things like that. And obviously, you know, Brent and my family and my friends and have given so much love and support, and then just being, you know, accepting help when I could physically couldn't, was, was one thing too, that I had to learn. And then, you know, accepting just support and help, and you know, emotionally and mentally too. So it was, it's just, you know, getting over myself, you know, initial, initially, you know, and then, but then I just feel like the life is just so much richer with all that, obviously, with all that love. And I feel better. And, you know, buoyed by everybody's like good wishes and vibes, and, you know, it makes me feel good,

40:50
love, oh, yeah, healing, right? And we can choose to look at the way when people want to give to us, that's our story that's stopping us, right? We can choose to say, Oh, I'm a burden, or they think I'm weak, or I don't want to be that one. Well, you are the one. You are the one who has cancer. So okay, let's accept that. And the only thing the people around us can do is show us love by offering service, by showing up, by laying next to you and watching a movie when you're too sick to do anything right, receiving when you start to look at it the way you've just described, is such a healing gift, the energy of love and happiness is healing, and it's not only healing you, but it's healing the people who love you when you let them give it, right? You allow yourself to receive. You allow them to give. And when we think back, like if we saw someone who was sick or who needed help for whatever reason, and our heart said, oh, I want to help this person. And they said, Nope, no, take your macaroni and cheese and go home, right? It's like, why don't that hurts, right? That's just dropping that wall shutting somebody out. It's saying no to love and no to abundance, right? Because you said trust the universe. And if you're a person who's like, oh my gosh, I'm sick and I feel physically weak and incapable of making food, and the universe is like, Here you go. Somebody put together a meal train, and you're like, Nope, no meal trains for me, I'll just lay here hungry. Never mind. Oh, it's just ourselves to abundance, right, allowing ourselves to recognize every little gift as abundance, right?

42:35
Yeah, that's so true, yeah. And then, you know, knowing that they're that's the way that they're showing support. Because a lot of people, some don't know what to say, and, you know, some say the wrong things, whatever those things are. But like, if there's a way for them to show up for you in a certain way, like, then who am I to just cut them off like that? Like, yes, okay, show up for me that way. Thank you. I appreciate that. And like the gifts or like blankets. And I used to always like the energy about that. I would just like, you know, why are people making such a fuss that kind of a thing? But now it's like, you know, I don't even spend that energy anymore on that. I just, you know, it's like, Thank you. Thank you for that blanket that was so thoughtful, and that was so sweet, you know. And it just adds now to my life versus before, where I just, you know, kind of were was squelching that a little bit more, or a lot more, lot more.

43:31
And you know what? Sure, I think that that's really relevant in our world today, where we look around and we hear people say, people suck, the world is so mean. Everybody is angry, and that's just not true. And there's so many good people in the world who want to do good things for each other, and if we want to be a part of a world where people do good things for each other, we have to let them right. We have to welcome it. We have to say, thank you hard stop. Thank you hard stop. Deal with my own like you said, getting out of your own way. Deal with why do I say that I'm a burden, right? And just let people be good. You know, one of the biggest objections that I hear, and I want to wrap it up with your thoughts on this, is women will say to me, and I'm saying this because you started and revivify, which was a group program you moved into Empower, which is a group program we've been together since 2020, and so many times women will say to me, group things just aren't for me. No, I just don't do group things. And again, isolate themselves, right? Just like we're talking about here, refusing to receive a gift from someone, or even let people know that you may be in need. What would you say, having had all the experience you've had in these groups and getting coaching to people who are out there thinking, I should be able to do this by myself, and groups just aren't my thing, right? So whether it's getting coaching, getting support and people. Like, I've heard this a life coach, how ridiculous. Just live your life, right? Like, what is the value in that? What would you say to somebody who feels like I'm struggling? I don't know what to do, but I should be able to figure this out on my own.

45:13
I was exactly at that place when I Googled breast cancer and podcasts, and I found Laura Lummer, the breast cancer recovery coach, because, to myself, I was like, I was either I was at the point where I either needed to get on antidepressants, because I had just finished chemotherapy and surgery and I didn't know what to do anymore. And so it was like, I need help. And so I reached, you know, I listened to, I think, your podcast. And then there was, like a workshop that I participated in. And, you know, I wasn't a joiner either. I tried a couple, I tried a support group in my local community in Duluth, but it was not anything that I got any anything out of. It just wasn't a good fit. And there was a couple places i i tried talking to a couple therapists again, that wasn't a good fit, either. And like I said, I wasn't a joiner, but I thought, oh, I'll just kind of stay in the background of this workshop. And then it turned into an interactive workshop, which I wasn't anticipating. And I was like, talking with you, and it was like, Oh my gosh, you know, like, it just got it just gave me a sense of support and, like, community, and that's what I look for now, is just that community. And I couldn't get that by myself, because I thought too, you know, like, I, you know, personally, hadn't struggled with anxiety or anything like that. But of, you know, prior to cancer, and then, you know, just trying to figure out, like, how to deal with breast cancer and and live my life and everything. And so I was, like, looking for outside help with that, and, and I just feel like, you know, I the best thing that I did was reach out. And that was the hardest step, too. That was one of the hardest step is to reach out and like, No, I want community. Ultimately, I want other people that are experiencing what I'm experiencing. And I found that through, through you, through the community online. And so I guess for people that are struggling now and and afraid to reach out that, you know, overcoming that there's so much on the other side and it all. It doesn't always have to be this way. That's how I felt, like I thought, Okay, this is my life now. I guess this is, yeah, I'm feeling, you know, in my mind and in my heart, I'm feeling broken, and my body is, you know, scarred, and I don't know what to do with myself, but yet, like I'm still here, and I still I want community, and I want friendship and I want support, and that is with other people, and that is With programs, and that is whether it's a program or whether it's even just, I know you have a lot of like self paced learning type situations too, but if you don't feel comfortable joining the group or something, or a group doing self paced learning works for some people too, where you're just actually reading, just reading about support or inspiration or different things like that, that could be helpful too. Yeah, and

48:24
examining your own thoughts about it, that's the key, right, right? What you're thinking and what those thoughts are creating in your life. And we talk about community and we talk about groups, but I think something that's important is a lot of times people will go to and I'm doing quotes cancer support groups, and it's all talk about cancer, right? It's talk about cancer and it's talking about medicine and it's talking about suffering, and that's not what we do. What do you think you've gotten from our community? And you know, we start in power, and not only have you all been together for, you know, five, six years now, but we've created retreats and met in person. Live like you've really built friendships, but those friendships have not been based on cancer, right? No, yeah, what does that ever be brought for you,

49:17
it's brought so it's brought so much inspiration, and it's like a foundation and for me, like and gives me the confidence then to pursue what I want to pursue, because I see these amazing, powerful women, you know, leading their own lives and making these changes. You know, everybody has a different story, and it's all, you know, when we get on our calls or things like that, we're not talking all about side effects and how painful things are and all our different traumas, like we all have that shared experience of different medical traumas and surgeries and all of and treatments and things, but it's like everybody is talking about their lives and how they want you know what? How they want to grow and bloom and change and, you know, things like that. So it's like and everybody builds each other up too, which is the amazing thing about community, whether it's on, like a Facebook page or just the interactive community or something, having people that share that, you know, foundation, but yet, that when we talk about everything, is talking about life and experience and joy and, of course, sadness and hard. You know, the hard things happen, obviously, too, but it's like, it's been such a powerful experience for me, because it's not about, it's not all about breast cancer, yeah? And a lot of people

50:40
brought us together, yeah,

50:42
and I think a lot of people think I'm not going to air my dirty laundry, right? I don't want to talk about airing my dirty laundry. I'm like, What does that even mean, right? But isn't that just another smoke shield for being vulnerable?

50:58
Yeah. And I find that's so true. But I find too like, in like, coaching calls and stuff, I learned so much from if somebody's sharing their experience of, you know, like, whatever happened this day, or something that they're struggling with, or, you know, and they get coached on that too, and it's like, I learn so much and everybody's experience, while I may not know that 100% like I can relate to that, or I can draw from their experience too. So it's like you get, you know, these 12, or however many people are in your group, like inspirational, like sparks all the time, to help you know, with your life and like that, support is invaluable,

51:41
yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, you make a good point, it's like support from the people who understand what we've been through and what we're going through, right? Because it's really difficult, and I think part of this process, one of the challenges, one of the many challenges, is what we're experiencing internally is very difficult to understand from someone who hasn't been through it, and people can hold space and be empathetic and ask, what do you need? I do think that more often than not, the response is, well, you're fine now, right? Let's just go and so it's something very special to be in a community of people who get it or like, I get it. I don't have to fix it for you. I'm just gonna sit here and let you be who you are and tell you I get it. Yeah, this is hard right now,

52:29
yeah, right. Or I'm here with you in this space, like sometimes that's all you know. I need is just either people to listen or just to sit there and be there with it, with the hard things, or with the hard questions or the fearful thoughts when they come in too. And it's like being able to talk about that in a in a very safe space is, you know, then again, like I said, gives me the confidence, then to go forth into my life. You know, with holding that true, you know, holding those things like top of mind and like, you know, with just the different lessons and things like that, I feel like that's just really it just really helpful, and just daily living is knowing that you can fall back on that support too, and knowing you can jump on a call, and you have All these friends that just get it and know and support, and you can say anything, and you know, then you can listen and be there for them too, which is really meaningful.

53:30
Yeah, yeah, great stuff. And before we wrap up, I just want to say to understand even more part of your physical journey. I'll link to the podcast we did with your physical therapist Monica, where we talked about lymphatic drainage, and she was remarkable. And that journey you've been through as well was just so powerful, so and I appreciate you so much. Sharing that and sharing her with us makes me want to move to Duluth so I can have sessions with her. Yeah, but yeah, she is amazing. Is there anything we haven't talked about that you would like to leave this audience with, that a message, something you'd like to say, if there's anything I want you to know, if you've had a breast cancer diagnosis of any kind, here's what it would be.

54:13
There's so much, I guess I would just you know if, whatever people are, you know, living with right now that's hard. That is like, you know, whatever that looks like for you, that even just taking like, the smallest breaths, or like, taking the smallest steps, like a step outside, seeing the sunshine, like that creates a shift, that creates another shift and another shift, and open space and like gets you to, you know, ultimately, where you want to be. But like, in those moments when it's so hard, there are things that can be done to make it a little less hard and not like the rose colored glasses or toxic positivity, but like. Like, how you can, actually, you can save yourself, like nobody's coming. Like, that's what I had to realize, that nobody's coming to save me, and I had to reach down and save myself. I was the one that was putting one foot in front of the other after surgeries to try and get to the next block and to the next block and then to the next mile. Or I was the one that lifted rocks after surgeries too, until I could lift weights to strengthen my arms again, you know, just things like that. It's like there are those small things, but then training like you were saying too, it's training the mind like that. To me, I was so focused on the outer body and getting that into a better place that it took me a while to realize that it was the mind that really drove everything, and that's how I created the change. Is when the mind shifted, and then even the small breaths, or, you know, that creates the space that creates a little bit of a mind shift it, you know, again, not all at once, but then over time. But it's like I found joy in the fact that I could do a small thing, yeah, and that made me do those things more often and repeated and stacking up and stacking up over the years. And that, I don't know that, just to me, works really well, like the bite sized pieces, and whether it's research or a poem that you read that's inspirational or something like that, but keep putting that in front of yourself each day to show yourself that there's that there's joy in it, and however you feel right now is not how you're going to Feel for the rest of your life.

56:41
So important. Yeah, right.

56:43
I mean, there's just so much, so

56:45
much, and is the best place for people to find you for more inspiration on Instagram?

56:51
Yes, yes, Instagram at the at tender one, and then Sherry Anderson on Facebook,

56:58
yeah, and I'll put links to both of those here. And how can people read some of your articles? Are there? Can we post links to previous issues of wildfire? And I know you've been other publications as well.

57:11
Yeah, so with the wildfire journal, if you link to their website, there's like, you can subscribe and do the digital you can buy digital copies or buy the print copies as well. And then with the Boundary Waters journal, that's also a website that you can subscribe and get the actual journal, which is the publication on canoe country. So I was able to do some writing on my return trip back to the Boundary Waters, which is the Canoe Area wilderness in Minnesota, and I was able to go back last year for the very first time since I had cancer. So I was able to write about that, and was published in that journal, which was amazing, amazing

57:53
to go from someone who, as we talked about on the other podcast with Monica, could it sit in a car for more than a few minutes to be out in some rough terrain, really rough, really cold, wild animals like you are the Bear Grylls of the breast cancer survivor community. And it's very impressive. I love it. Okay, so we'll link to those websites as well, and people can go and find your writing, which I'm very excited that you can share with the world. Thank you so much for being here, Sherry. I appreciate you so much.

58:26
Oh, thanks so much, Laura. You're such an inspiration to me. So it's amazing to be here. Thank you.

58:35
You've put your courage to the test, laid all your doubts to rest. Bye, rest. Your mind is clearer than before, your heart is full and wanting more. Your Future's at the door.

58:53
Give it all you got no

58:56
hesitating. You've been waiting

58:58
all your life. All your life, this is your

59:05
moment. This is your moment. This is your

59:21
moment.