How often have you wondered why you’re supposed to follow healthy lifestyle practices?

What is the actual purpose?

What are they accomplishing in your body? 

Especially when you feel ok if you don’t follow them and your doctor might even tell you that these practices don’t matter or won’t make a difference in your treatment. 

In this episode, I’ll walk you through Cancer 101 by explaining the two competing theories of why we get cancer. 

I believe that knowledge is power and when you understand how these theories are both valid and important, you may be more inspired to take power over supporting your metabolic health.  

Referred to in this episode: 

All the carcinogens we cannot see 

Siddhartha Mukherjee 

Soon we'll cure diseases with a cell, not a pill 

A New Way of Looking at Cancer 

Cancer as a mitochondrial metabolic disease 

Read the full transcript below:

Laura Lummer 0:00
Hey friends. Before we jump into this episode, I just want to let you know that because of some exciting changes coming up in 2024, two of my standalone programs are going to be retired from the standalone category and they're gonna live inside my better than before breast cancer membership. So of course, those people who've already purchased the programs will have lifetime access. But if you always wanted to join 90 days of wellness and just haven't pulled the trigger, or you've always wanted to explore becoming you 2.0 And take the first steps to recreating the life you want to live after breast cancer, now's the time to do it. These programs will be accessible on their own until January 15 2024. After that they'll only live inside, the better than before breast cancer membership. So click on the links you'll find where you listen to this podcast, or go to my website, the breast cancer recovery coach.com and click on coaching and programs to grab one of these very valuable programs while you can. Alright, let's get into the show. You're listening to better than before breast cancer with the breast cancer recovery coach. I'm your host, Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills and the insights and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis. If you're looking for a way to create a life, that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started. Hey there, welcome to episode 304. I'm your host, Laura Lummer. And I'm so excited to talk about everything I have planned for today's episode. Because I think it's some really interesting stuff. I want to just start off with a little bit of a personal story that gave me kind of an epiphany the other day when it comes to what we know what we understand and what we're ready to know and understand as far as how to treat our own bodies and understanding our own metabolic wellness. So the other day, I'm having a conversation with one of my sisters. And she's really excited, she's really motivated, because she's just come across some information on fasting. And the book she was reading, she found to be very inspirational, she started fasting, she's feeling really good. She's lost nearly 10 pounds. And she's sharing this information with me about this book. And she's telling me, I'm gonna send you the link because you need to read this. And I said to her, you know, I've been practicing fasting for years, right? We've talked about this before. And she says, Yeah, but did you know that it has an effect on on your body on a whole cellular level? And I said, seriously? Are you joking right now? I mean, you know that I study this stuff, right? I don't only practice it, but I study it. I teach it. I work with clients on it. And she says to me, I guess so yeah, but I think I've never heard it stated the way it was stated by this person. And that totally made sense to me. And that made me want to try it.

Laura Lummer 3:20
So as I'm listening to her as gets me thinking, and I think about how many times I've personally had this experience, and I've also been working with clients, where they get on a coaching call with me. And they're super excited about a lightbulb moment, right, a moment of enlightenment that they've had, and they'll share it with me. And I think we talked about this, you know, we this was like a monthly focus six months ago, or a year ago or three months ago, or whatever it might be. But what I realize is that it doesn't matter, really the information that's in front of you, as much as how it said, when it said, right, if the timing in your life is right to be able to receive that information. And if it's said in the right way that it clicks for you and you understand the value of that information. Those play a really big factor in whether or not you choose to take action on something to support your health. So as I started thinking about that, I thought about these Tuesday train talks, and I thought, you know, a talk on the Tuesday train talks about some generic things so far some lifestyle practices. But I wonder if you have a really good understanding of what the heck is the reason for this metabolic approach to cancer? Like where did it come from? What does it mean? Why do we call it the metabolic approach to cancer? And as I thought about that, I decided I wanted to do this one on one show and I think it's important because when I mean People who don't understand, you know, there's, I'm sure you're listening this podcast, that you have a understanding of the fear of recurrence of the fear of being in living with cancer and wondering how did I get it? Why did I get it? Why did I get it back what happened here. And I think that when I give you this foundational information that maybe it'll make a little more sense. And when it makes sense of what happens, what the whole theory behind why we get cancer is, and you see it from both sides, then maybe embracing an integrated approach to support your health makes more sense to you, because you understand why. And you understand what the standard of care treatment is doing, as well as what the integrated approach and complementary therapies are doing, and why that's so significant. So we're gonna go back to cancer 101 here today, and I want to explain two different ideas or theories. Now, let me just state right up front. Anytime that I'm talking about standard of care versus integrative care. This is not anything that should be any kind of substitute for medical decisions that you make, you should always talk to your doctor about any medical decisions that are unique to you. This is just an information on both sides of this theory of how we can support our health. And basically what one side does a little bit more than the other when it comes to trying to help humans heal their bodies, or help human bodies heal from cancer. So there's really two theories here. One is called the somatic theory of cancer, and the other is the metabolic theory of cancer. So the somatic theory of cancer is this basic concept. It's the understanding of the development of cancer, and it's very focused on the cancer cell, right? What is cancer? What are the qualities of the cancer cells themselves. And according to that theory, cancer arises due to mutations in the cells of our bodies, and these are called our somatic cells. So a somatic cell is any cell that is not a reproductive cell, okay, so anything that's not a sperm or an egg is a somatic cell. So some of the key aspects of this theory of the somatic theory of cancer are that it's mutations in the DNA of somatic cells that lead to cancer. And that these mutations can be caused by a lot of different factors, including exposure to toxins, like tobacco, smoke, radiation, chemicals, it can be caused by genetic predispositions or just random errors in our DNA replication. So as each cell divides and makes his daughter cells that maybe there's some errors that happen there in Remine, replicating its DNA. And then the second aspect is called clonal expansion. And that means that once a somatic cell acquires a mutation, that confer a growth advantage means it can divide uncontrollably. And this process is called clonal. Expansion. And we know that that's a problem with cancer cells, right? Cancer cells grow uncontrollably, they don't stop, they don't adhere to the programmed cell death that normal healthy cells do. So they keep growing. And that's what all these meds that we go through and chemotherapy and all that are targeting, we want to stop them from growing. So in this clonal expansion, the mutated cell continues to make more cells with the same mutation. And then the third aspect is the accumulation of mutations. So the cancer cell develops when mutations occur, and then they accumulate in a cell. And then these mutations involve genes that regulate cell growth, and division, you definitely have heard of them. If you've been diagnosed with breast cancer and gone through all the assessments, you've heard the term oncogenes and oncogenes promote cell division, and then tumor suppressor genes. Those are the ones that try to stop tumors and something goes wrong with them, they don't work the way that they're supposed to work. So then that leads to another aspect, which is escaped from normal cell controls. So these mutated cells eventually have enough changes, they accumulate all these mutations. And then they basically break free from the rules that govern normal cells. So they don't have what's called the regulatory regulatory mechanisms that control regular cell growth and cell death. And so this allows those cells to grow and divide completely unregulated, right? They're just not with the plan or not following the program, and then that results in the formation of a tumor. So this uncontrolled growth of these mutated cells leads to an accumulation of them. And not all tumors are cancerous, you know, some things can go wrong and mutations can occur. And the tumors that grow are called benign, and they're not cancer, and they don't go on to invade tissues or spread to other parts of the body that cancer cells do, they spread, and that's called metastasizing. And then another problem that's identified in the somatic theory is that tumors often have lots of different cells, genetic diversity in the cells. And so this can make cancer treatment even more challenging. Again, you've been through cancer treatment, you probably know this, right? Some people have even come to me and said, Okay, I have this one tumor, there's three kinds of cancer in it. One of them is a triple negative, and one of them isn't. And so we can have this diversity inside these tumor cells. And then those differences, respond differently to different therapies. So it can get really complicated. So while these genetic mutations are really the key to the somatic theory, there's also non genetic factors like the microenvironment of the tumor, and then epigenetic changes. And so epigenetic changes we've talked about before, that a gene may be one thing, but it may not be turned on and may be turned off, it may be causing symptoms, it may not be causing symptoms. But definitely other exposures or lifestyle habits have a role and epigenetic changes can happen. And so that plays a role in the development of cancer. So the somatic theory of cancer is the widely accepted, we go we get a diagnosis of cancer, we go to our oncologist, they're really adhering to the somatic theory of cancer. There, the most commonly accepted theory is this is a genetic disease. And the basis of all current model, not all but a lot of modern cancer research. And modern cancer treatments focus on understanding these genetic changes in the tumor. And the targeted therapies. We hear about targeted therapies these days, those are designed to just go into that tumor and to address those changes. Okay. So again, the somatic theory of cancer is this cell theory where it's saying something went wrong with the DNA. And it's very, very focused on the cancer cell and the behaviors and the activity of the cancer cell. Now, on the other side of that coin, is the metabolic theory. This perspective says that cancer is primarily a metabolic disease primarily, not only right, we're going to talk about that. But it's caused by dysfunctional energy production in the cells, specifically through what's called cellular respiration. So some of the key aspects of the metabolic theory include what's known as the Warburg effect. And if you've dabbled into the metabolic theory, have you read the metabolic approach to cancer, you've watched some of the documentaries like cancer evolution or the Docu series by Kelly Turner radical remission, any kind of cancer Docu series where they're exploring different ways to support the body through nutrition and alternative therapies, you've probably heard of the Warburg effect. So this is associated with the scientist and researcher, Otto Warburg, and he was a biochemist in the 1920s. And this he says that cancer cells tend to produce energy through a process called glycolysis. And that means that instead of using oxygen, instead of getting their energy, the way that normal cells get their energy, cancer cells work in a different way, and that they use a different method to actually produce their own energy, rather than depending on oxygen to give them energy. And then another aspect of this is called mitochondrial dysfunction. Mitochondria are those cells in our body that give us energy, they produce ATP. And so people who agree with metabolic theory, say that the primary cause of cancer is because mitochondria gets damaged, and the mitochondria is what's known as the energy powerhouse of the cells. And because mitochondria gets damaged, then we have an increased reliance on different ways to produce energy for those cells. Okay. So that shift in energy production in cancer cells, the shift from what's called oxidative phosphorylation, I'm trying not to use the term because I don't want it to sound too scientific here. But it's this shift in the way that the cancer cells produce energy and that is thought to contribute to the growth and the survival of these cancer cells. So this is known as a metabolic shift. And anytime that we have a metabolic process that's happening in our body. It produces other metabolites, right other things come out of that cell. And in the metabolic theory of cancer, these metabolic intermediates contribute to the cancer progression as well. So a key aspect of the metabolic theory is the focus on metabolism for treatment. And the metabolic theory says that targeting these altered metabolism of these cancer cells is an effective treatment strategy. So in the metabolic theory, they're really looking at what's going on in the whole body versus just in the cancer cells. And so the metabolic theory, the metabolic approach can involve restricting nutrients, right, like sugar, we talked about low carbohydrate diet, keeping blood sugar as low as possible, so depriving these cancer cells of certain nutrients that they depend on, or also using drugs, combining standard of care therapy, so that that's targeting the cancer cells, while the metabolic approach is handling the cells around that cancer cell to strengthen them. So the cancer cell gets weak, its pathways, the way that it's working, and the stuff it's shooting out into our body that affects our normal cells is being interrupted. And so the theory is that, because these cancer cells have a different way of producing energy, they put out different metabolic waste, they affect the cells that are around them. And it is in doing that, that genetic mutations occur. So the people who subscribe to the metabolic theory of cancer say, yeah, there is a genetic component, both sides are right, but that the metabolic dysfunction comes first, the mitochondria get broken. And when the mitochondria don't function correctly, then we have DNA damage, and then that turns into genetic issues. And so we have both things at play here, which is really important to understand. I think that sometimes people think it's got to be one or the other. And that's a real problem. Because our bodies are not that cut and dry. It's not black and white, it's very complicated. And cancer is very complicated. So well, the somatic mutation therapy says that these genetic mutations are the primary cause. The metabolic theory thinks that those genetic mutations are the secondary cause. But they are there, they do exist, and they are a part of the problem, they just happen to say occurs because of the disruption in cellular metabolism. So the metabolic theory definitely has evidence to support this idea. And I'm gonna put links here in the show notes for this episode. So I'm gonna give you a ton of reading that you can do. If you haven't heard of this, if you want more clarity on this, so that you can explore it for yourself. And honestly, this show isn't about like, oh, go tell your doctor, it's this and there's a metabolic factor to this is just for your own understanding. And I think the, for me, the important thing that I want to convey is for you, as the person who's trying to support the optimal health of your body, for you to understand you don't, it doesn't have to be one or the other, like both sides have important roles in this. And just like you wouldn't go to a podiatrist to treat cancer. When you go to your traditional oncologist, they've got a role in what they do. And a protocol that's very well researched with lots of evidence behind it and drugs that are used to treat cancer. When you go to an integrative oncologist, they have an understanding of those protocols and the protocols that support your body as well. So I'm just saying to to think about it and understand that it isn't one or the other. And they're not necessarily conflicting theories. They're conflicting in the aspect of which came first the chicken or the egg. But they're saying kind of on both sides, right. Even if you're saying this somatic theory, they're saying, Well, you have these DNA mutations, and then these DNA mutations create these cells that have metabolic disruption. Other side saying, Yeah, but the metabolic disruption came first. So either way, both sides are saying there's two components here. So why limit ourselves to just thinking about treating or approaching our bodies in only one way? I think that there's a lot of benefit to be offered in keeping an open mind to all the ways that all the treatments can play a part in supporting our health. And I just want you to know how important it is to understand this metabolic piece of it because you've got a lot more control over that we can't go out and write ourselves prescriptions for cancer fighting drugs, but we can take action and have a lot of power in the things we do to support On normal cells, and to kickstart our metabolism, heal mitochondria, and things of that nature. Which field there's still, obviously, research and investigation going on with how do you treat cancer from the somatic theory. And there's also a lot of research and studies going on, on how you treat cancer from a metabolic theory. And both sides have a lot of evidence to them. And both sides, I think are exciting and involving. And I often say to people, you know, every day for someone like me who's living with cancer, every day that you survive is exciting, because new things are on the horizon all the time on both sides of this coin. And both sides are very important. In my opinion, they're very important. All right. So integration of these theories. So some researchers suggest that the metabolic and the somatic mutations are not mutually exclusive. And that we need an integrated approach considering both genetic and metabolic factors to get not only a better understanding of cancer, but to better support the patient and not destroy the patient in the process of destroying the cancer. So it's really important to understand that the metabolic theory of cancer is not as widely accepted as the somatic mutation. But it definitely definitely offers very valuable perspective. And it's encouraged many, many, many researchers, the field of exploring the metabolic approach to cancer is growing and growing. And so I want to point out to you what I think is a really great article again, I'll link to that in the show notes for this episode, you'll find it the breast cancer recovery coach.com, forward slash 304. Or you'll find the links to them right here where you're listening to this podcast or watching the video. And so there's this wonderful article that was published in the New Yorker and it was written by Siddhartha Mukherjee. Now Dr. Mukherjee is a physician oncologist and an author. And he's best known for an incredible book called The Emperor of All Maladies. And that's basically a biography at Well, that's the subtitle a biography of cancer. And that book is a comprehensive history of cancer and its treatment and Mukherjee won the Pulitzer Prize for that book in 2011. Now he's all also the author of the gene, of the laws of medicine, and of the song of the cell. I think the song of the cell is his most recent one. But in this article that he wrote that was published in the New Yorker, it's called all the carcinogens we cannot see. He talks about the work of Bruce Ames. And Bruce Ames was a biochemist at Berkeley in the 1970s, he discovered a way to test whether a chemical might cause cancer. And in this article, Mukherjee kind of reviews how that happened. And Ames is discovery of how you can test to see if a substance is a carcinogen, is basically the way of testing carcinogens on a bacteria to see if they cause cancer, because we can't test carcinogens on humans. So we obviously very unethical. And so the Ames tests, the way that Dr. Ames found out that you could test these different carcinogens on bacteria to see if they mutated the cells. It's called the Ames test. And it's pretty much the standard that's used to this day to decide whether or not a substance is a carcinogen. But obviously, once you come across a big discovery like this, like oh, hey, we can test these substances and see if they're carcinogenic, more and more people go. And according to the scientific theory, they try to replicate right, they keep testing, keep exploring, and these ongoing experience have led scientists to some really interesting revelations. So there's a Dr. Alan Baines at the University of California in San Francisco. And Mukherjee talks with him interviews him in this article. And he realized that there's two different substances that he refers to as cancer causing substances, and as cancer promoting substances. And it's really interesting, because he says that cancer causing substances actually mutate a cell, but cancer promoting substances create an environment for cancer to grow. And how he came across this was because they tested a lot of carcinogens, and they would have the substance that they say, Okay, there's evidence behind the substance. This is a known carcinogen. We know this causes mutations, we know that this leads to malignancies. But not always, tumors always grow when they did animal tests with these different carcinogens. But then, when they were take other substances, substances that they knew did things like create inflammation, and they applied those to tissues first, then they applied the carcinogens, then tumors grew like crazy. So there's a really fascinating mouse study in the article in The New Yorker, which I'm linking to. And I highly suggest you check that out and read it, because I thought that that was super fascinating. And for the purposes that I'm talking about here on this podcast, the point is to understand the both the terrain, the substance, or the thing that caused the inflammation in the body and the way the state of the body and the carcinogen, both had a role in creating cancer. Right? So it comes back to somatic theory, metabolic theory, and what are the effect that our body has? And what is the effect that a cell has, and how do they work together. And so the standard of care treatment is designed against killed that cancer cell. But while it's doing that, it can't differentiate and also damages our healthy cells in the cells that surround the cancer cell. The metabolic approach comes into play here, because it works well. It's designed to not only support stressing out the cancer cell and making it more vulnerable to treatments, but supporting the health of the normal cell. So when we see this picture from both sides, and we understand both sides of the argument, I think it makes sense that we can kind of embrace the whole thing that we can say, oh, both sides have truth. And both sides have value. And an integrated approach and an understanding of the importance of the things you have power over is significant, right? So when we go to our oncologist, we get the treatments that we get. But and those are great and wonderful and have kept many of us alive. But we can also say, but there's so much more I can do. And I hear this question a lot, which is another reason why I want to talk about this day. I think I'm doing everything I can do. What else can I do, I don't know what else is available to do. So when we have this other perspective, I think it opens opportunities for us to help to reduce our risk of recurrence and to help support treatment outcomes. Because even though our body is always working to heal itself, it is trying always to maintain homeostasis, that steady state of being and our body wants to stay healthy. We need to support it by using all the tools that are available to us in the metabolic approach. Because if we ignore those metabolic tools, and instead, we just let ourselves go take the meds, go get the treatments and still get poor sleep still eat processed foods still have high toxic burden, unhealthy relationships, suppress negative emotions, we can be creating a cancer promoting environment in our bodies by damaging the mitochondria that play a key role, not only in producing energy, but in apoptosis in that programmed cell death that we really want our cells to adhere to. We want ourselves to follow the rules, all of them, right. And so when the cells evade this program, cell death, that's called a hallmark of cancer. And cancer has many hallmarks, which I'm going to discuss in future episodes of the train to train talks. So something though that I think is fascinating, I want to point out to you is that in 2015, Thomas Seyfried, who's the author of cancer as a metabolic disease, he published an article in the journal frontiers in Cell and Developmental Biology, where he discusses the findings of what are known as nuclear cytoplasmic transfer experiments. And in simple terms, here's what that means. It means these experiments took a normal cell with a normal healthy nucleus. And the nucleus is where all of our DNA is, right. So if it's a genetic disease, then the genes are there in the DNA, and the DNA is housed in the nucleus. So these are different experiments that he assessed and that he reviewed, took a normal cell with a normal healthy nucleus and a normal healthy mitochondria. And when they use those cells and reproduce them, guess what they got normal healthy cells with a normal nucleus and a normal mitochondria. And then they took tumor cells that had a damaged nucleus and a damaged mitochondria. And guess what those cells grew more tumor cells make sense? Then he looked at the studies that took healthy cells that had a damaged nucleus, but healthy mitochondria. And if cancer was solely a genetic disease, and the nucleus was damaged, had DNA damage, you would expect it to produce a tumor cell. But what they found in this study is that cells that had a broken nucleus and healthy mitochondria produced normal healthy cells. But when they change that into a normal healthy cell, with damaged mitochondria, and a healthy nucleus, to tumor cells grow. So in kind of this landmark revelation of looking at where cancer cells grew from, see for us this information, and the review of these studies to say, hey, cancer is not originating from DNA. Cancer is originally from the mitochondria, that's in the cytoplasm, the goo inside the cell, the broken mitochondria is where it's coming from, and that the genetic damage follows that the genetic damage is secondary. And we can see that from transferring these pieces of cells to other pieces and see what we get and what that cell produces. So that was a fascinating study. And it lends even more credibility to this idea, that understanding the metabolic approach to cancer, and doing all the things that we can do. And really understanding what can be done can have a huge benefit for us. And I think when we understand that benefit at this basic foundational level, that maybe it makes more sense, and it's a little more inspirational. So when I talk about this, and when I talk with clients about, you know, this metabolic approach to cancer, and all the things that we can do to support our metabolism, and support our body's ability to heal itself, one of the most common questions I get is, why don't doctors talk about this? Why don't we ever hear about this, and I want to be really clear on saying, We've got to stop holding our doctors responsible for areas that are not part of their expertise. You know, my oncologist is an expert in oncology, he is an expert in understanding a cancer cell, and how a cancer cell works, and the medicines that target cancer cells and the pathways that cancer cells use. That's what he does. That's what he is an expert in. And it doesn't mean that he's hiding anything. It doesn't mean he's bad. It doesn't mean you know, there's some kind of evil conspiracy that goes on, it means that in medical training, and in medical oncology training, that is the focus. But just because that's the focus doesn't mean that it's the only approach. So we hear well, you know, how can I do this therapy or that therapy, or this food or this supplement, because my oncologist says, there's no evidence behind it. And there isn't, because we're in a field where people are testing pharmaceutical drugs to see how they affect cancer cells. That's where they're trying to develop and an advanced cancer treatment.

Laura Lummer 32:35
So there's not studies a lot of studies that say, to take this herb, and you know, look at how this affects cancer and how it works with that chemotherapy agent. And that chemotherapy agent and that chemotherapy agent, right, it gets really, really complicated. So I think it's important for own well being, and for our relationships with our physicians, that we understand the role that our standard of care oncologist Phil for us, and the importance of opening yourself to other information, whether you get it from legitimate experienced professionals, whether you're watching on a YouTube video, or you hire your own integrative physician, or you listen to their podcast or something like that, but that you're getting that good information in any way that you can. That complements, right. That's why I call it complementary therapy, it's complementing whatever treatment you're already doing, meaning it's supporting your healthy cells, it's helping you to feel better, it's lessening the damage the treatment due to your normal cells. And what I hope this episodes leaves you with is just more of an understanding of that, more of an understanding of the importance of supporting that metabolic approach to health, and that metabolic approach to cancer. And that you have more curiosity and more openness to maybe bringing on an integrative team, creating your own integrative team creating your own integrative approach, getting it approved by a licensed professional, running it by your oncologist running it by your primary care doctor, of course, all those things be safe first, always, always, always. But when you want to know everything that's available for you to support your body's ability to heal. Remember that there are two sides to this. I don't even want to call it an argument because it shouldn't be an argument. Again, I'm not trying to say one is wrong. I'm saying that both have things that are valuable. And so we need to open ourselves to understanding how this metabolic approach to health to life and to cancer supports that terrain so that we we ourselves, our bodies don't become cancer promoting environments, right? We want to be cancer discouraging environments. So that those things that we can't avoid and exposed to in the world. To some extent, they have less of an ability to thrive in us. And that's what's so important when it comes to talking about the trade these Tuesday trade talks. That's what it's all about. So I hope that that basic understanding helps. And on the next Tuesday Train Talk, we're going to talk more about mitochondria. Because I think understanding how our mitochondria works and the things we do and the things we can avoid, in order to help mitochondria to heal is really super important. And there's some cool, totally free, there's one protocol, we'll talk about 100%, free, and lots of evidence behind how it supports the healing of mitochondria in our body. So we're gonna talk about that next time. All right, my friend. If you have questions, I'd love to hear them. So come and find me on Facebook, Laura Lummer, the breast cancer recovery coach, same on Instagram, DM me, come and join my free Facebook group, the breast cancer recovery group, let's talk about your questions there. I love to support you. And the gold standard come and join me in the better than before breast cancer life coaching membership, where all of this is discussed and all of the thoughts and all of the things that we have to do to make these changes in our lives to understand them to work with them and to get the support we need. All of that is inside of this membership discussed supported. And I hope you come and join me and check it out. All right, I'll talk to you again soon. Be good to yourself.

Speaker 1 36:37
You've heard your courage to the test laid all your doubts. Your mind is clearer than before your hardest, wanting more. Your futures Give it all you know you've been waiting on