Episode Overview

What does it really mean to manifest a life you love after cancer? And how do you hold hope, fear, gratitude, and grief all at the same time without losing yourself in the process?

In this powerful conversation, I sit down with my friend and fellow Metabolic Terrain Advocate, Hayley Dubin, host of The Cancer Liberation Project and a 27-year ovarian cancer survivor. We talk about the mindset shifts that support healing, the role of curiosity, why gratitude is not denial, and how abundance is about so much more than finances.

We explore how to rebuild trust with your body, how to choose the people you allow into your inner world, and how to take small steps that eventually lead to the life you want.

If you have ever felt stuck between fear and hope, this episode will feel like a breath of fresh air.

In this episode, you will hear:
• Why abundance includes relationships, health, self-love and purpose
• How gratitude rewires your brain and supports emotional healing
• The difference between toxic positivity and true resilience
• Why curiosity shifts you out of judgment and into possibility
• How to choose the people who influence your healing
• The importance of listening to your intuition when building your support team
• How small steps create the identity needed for long-term change

About Hayley Dubin:
Hayley is a Certified Health Coach, Metabolic Terrain Advocate, and founder of reVIVE Wellness. She is also the host of The Cancer Liberation Project Podcast. As a 27-year ovarian cancer survivor, she supports people who have completed treatment or who have a strong family history of cancer. Her work focuses on helping clients release fear and step into confidence as they take ownership of their health.

Links:

Manifestation Quiz

Living With Intention 2026 Workshop

Andy Campbell | Finding Strength in the Storm

Hayley Dubin Links:

Website: www.revivewellness.com

Free Gift: 7 Top Tips to Keep Cancer Away and Feel Confident in Your Body Again!

Podcast: The Cancer Liberation Project

Social Media: Instagram Facebook Linkedin

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Read the full transcript:

0:00
You're listening to better than before breast cancer with the breast cancer recovery coach. I'm your host, Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills and the insights and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis if you're looking for a way to create a life that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started. Hey there, friends, welcome back to the better than before breast cancer podcast. I'm your host. Laura Lummer, we are in the final month of 2025 Can you believe it? This year flew by, and when it comes to the end of the year, I think it's been a very important part of my healing practice. Actually, I don't think it's been. I know it has been when it comes to the end of the year, reviewing what went well for me, what I want to leave behind, what I want to give more energy and attention to and bring forward into the next year, and being very intentional about what I want to create has been a huge part of healing for me. And I think the way that it's played a part in healing is in a couple of things. One, it helps me know I get to put the energy into creating the life I want to build. And when I put that energy and intention, living intentionally, living on purpose, deciding what I want life to look like. That doesn't just include, like a lot of people talk about manifestation, and they talk about getting stuff and getting money, which nothing wrong with that. It's wonderful to attract abundance of every kind into your life, but we can't forget that being intentional also serves our relationships, our work, whatever work we choose to do in the world, and our health. And so we get to decide what we want that to look like. So it's become an annual thing for me to do a workshop about living with intention, to help you understand how to review the year in a way that doesn't have judgment, but has a lot of curiosity, and helps you learn and grow from whatever your year looked like, and helps you understand the power that you have to decide with intention about what you want to create going forward. And there are steps, there are steps that have been proven to work that you take to make these things happen, and that's what I share in my workshop. So check out the links on this episode, and you can sign up to come to my living with intention workshop for 2026 so to kick off December, I invited somebody very special, very inspirational, absolutely amazing person, to come and join me on this podcast, because she's created so many great things in her life, and I wanted to Have a great conversation with her about what it means to manifest something like, how can we go through things that are as devastating as cancer diagnoses or living with stage four cancer and still think I can build a great future? How does that happen? How do you rewire your brain in a way that that mindset works for you and feels real and true for you. So I invited my friend Haley Dubin, a fellow metabolic terrain advocate and health coach and the founder of revive wellness, to come and talk about this topic with me. Haley is the host of the cancer liberation project podcast, and you will love her podcast. I will also link to that in the show notes for this episode. If you haven't listened to it and started following that podcast, please do you're going to love it. She speaks to some incredible people on that show. Haley is also a 27 year ovarian cancer survivor. That's amazing. Her passion is to help people overcome the physical, mental and emotional challenges that the cancer journey can bring, and her focus is with individuals that have completed treatment for cancer, as well as those who have a strong family history of cancer. So she helps her clients let go of the fear and take control of their health so that they can feel confident in their ability to heal. And that, my friends, takes a tremendous amount of neuroplasticity and rewiring the brain and applying tools of manifestation to get to believe that, to get to work on that. And it starts with belief. Right? People think that healing starts with a meal plan. No, it starts with believing you can heal. People might think that creating a business that they love, or attracting a relationship that's fulfilling and meaningful, starts with some kind of a plan, some kind of a written to do list, but it starts with the belief that it's possible. And when you don't believe it's possible, and you tell yourself it's possible, then you also get to see what thoughts pop up in your head that are blocking you, and when you become aware of what's stopping you from living the life you want to live, that's amazing, because it gives you so many great things to begin to work on. So before I talk all about manifestation, I'm going to invite you into a conversation with Hayley Dubin, and I'll let it do all the talking for me. Hello Hayley, and welcome to the better than before breast cancer podcast. Thanks so much for making the time to be here today.

5:34
Thank you for having me, Laura. I'm so looking forward to our conversation. I love talking.

5:39
And two, you know, your story is so powerful. Your energy is so powerful. I love working with you. I love talking with you, listening to you, and so we're just going to start off there. I'd love for you to share. Of course, I did a little intro to you ahead of time, but I just want to hear from you. You know, we're talking about today, manifestation, the power of manifestation, but not just when it comes to one thing in life that people typically think about, which is money, but everything in life, and why, especially at this time of year, at any point in life, but especially at this time of year, why is so important for us to wrap our mind around being intentional about how we want to move forward? So I want to hear about your story from your perspective, and I want to hear your thoughts on that and some of the things that you've done in your life that have helped you be where you are today.

6:30
That's great, you know. So it was actually 27 years ago that I found out I had a lump on my ovary and and you probably introduced my story, but just really quick, I'll make it quick. They told me they don't know if it's cancer, but I would need surgery to remove it. And so, you know, I was definitely nervous on I always had a positive attitude, thinking, Oh, it's not cancer. You know, there's no way you were held. So I was 29 just to turn 30. Yeah, yes, yeah. So of course you would be like, it can't be cancer. I'm 29 years old Exactly, exactly. And at the time, I was completely stressed out and doing all the wrong things. And you know, so now looking back, it wasn't too surprising, but I just remember waking up in the recovery room to my husband's face, staring at me as he said, You have to survive. And so it was a really scary thing. It was stage 3c ovarian cancer. And yeah, so, you know, I had two surgeries, chemotherapy, and when I was finished with everything, the doctor said, you're going to be fine. And that's great to hear from your doctor, because you're like, oh, okay, then that's your mindset, I'm going to be fine. But I had so many questions, you know? How did I get this in the first place? What can I do moving forward to never have to go through what I went through before, because it was pretty strong chemo and it was pretty bad. I had to stay in the hospital for five days each time, each round. So anyways, you know when you asked me about mindset, so many things came to mind because I think, instead of living out of fear, I mean, fear can push you or motivate you to work on yourself. And I mean, I really took a microscope to my life and knew I had to make tons of changes. So even though there was some fear there, it kind of I used it to motivate me instead of being paralyzed by it. So that's kind of it in a nutshell. Yeah, well,

8:54
and stage three, did you say 3c so it was 3c Yeah. Ovarian Cancer has a really high recurrence rate. Yeah, right, yeah. And this was what year that you went through your chemotherapy? So this was in 1998 98 Yeah, because I was thinking my brother went through chemo in 93 and same thing was five days, days in the hospital, and absolutely brutal. And for those of us who go through chemotherapy in this day and age, although it's still horrible and brutal, we are so fortunate to have so many pharmaceuticals to support and manage the side effects. Because what you went through, I'm sure, was very similar to what my brother went through, and it was horrific. It was a nightmare. Yeah, yeah. So how do you though? Haley, you know when, when we and I'm sure you have this too, when you're coaching people, you talk to people and they say, okay, so used here to motivate me instead of staying stuck in fear, which is very, very common after a cancer diagnosis and treatment, being stuck in fear, not knowing how to move forward. But then I hear people say, How do you do that? Right? Because that's. Are people saying, just change your thoughts. Just think differently. Just don't think like that and you're like, What? What does that even mean? How do I not think like that when this is my brain? What are the some of the things that you did, like, how do you go from deciding to use fear as a motivation rather than getting stuck in it?

10:18
Yeah, such a great question. I mean, the first thing I did is do a gratitude journal. And people talk about that all the time, but I wrote five things I'm grateful for every day, and it completely changed my mindset. I mean, things were tough, like I said, chemo was not easy, but what I would do is use it kind of as a journal to vent to. You know, all the things that happened that day that were kind of tough, and I don't feel great and I don't have much energy, but my son did this, or it's so beautiful outside, and it just changes your perspective, it changes the neurons in your brain. So that is just one thing I started off doing right away, and now to this day, I love to look back at it. It's just so much fun to see like what the kids were doing at the time, and then I continued it. But, you know, other things I love to learn. So I read so many self help books. You know, anything I can get my hands on. Some of them, you can heal your life. You know, with Oh Louise Hay I'm like thinking, what's his name? Again? Yes, I loved Bernie Siegel. I don't know if you've heard of him, yes, yes. So he's so incredible, and he worked with so many cancer survivors and talked about mindset. So to me, when you take action, you know just if it's it's writing, if it's reading something small, it doesn't have to be overwhelming, because I know gosh, from coaching people, people are looking all over the internet before they find me, before they find you, and they are like, Oh my gosh, there are so many things I could be doing right now. And it's it just that's when you become paralyzed.

12:08
Yeah, absolutely, you know, you said something that I think is really important that we expand on, which is like you wrote positive things. So you started practicing gratitude. How is practicing gratitude and choosing to intentionally look at things that are going well in your life. How is it different than ignoring what's not going well or fooling yourself, right? Because a lot of people say, Oh, well, so you just, you just, you're kidding yourself, right? You're not looking at the whole picture, which isn't true, right? So I, I think, really digging into what does it mean, and how does that change your mind? How does it change your mindset? When we start practicing gratitude and you made another point, action is imperative, right? We can't just hope for it or wish for it or wait for it. So how is journaling about gratitude is different from just choosing not to think about the stuff that's challenging and why is action imperative? Yeah.

13:11
I mean, we're in intelligent beings. Our bodies store emotions, so if you're just, you know, not facing all these things that are happening, your body takes score, right? Your body, there's a book like that. So Vander core Body Keeps the Score. Your Body Keeps the Score Exactly. So you're not doing your body any any good. And you know, you remind me of one thing you didn't say it. But people talk about toxic positivity and, yeah, you can't just be like, Oh, everything's so wonderful and not look at the things that are upsetting you, because it's so important to find a support person to talk to. And if, if you don't, you know, maybe if you don't have a support person, like a friend that gets it, I would definitely see a therapist, or whoever you feel like you could trust. But I think it's so important to let those emotions out and gratitude. You know, when you're grateful, you just have more to be grateful for, I mean, and I'm sure you have seen that as well,

14:18
absolutely, absolutely, and I think it's an important distinguish, or to distinguish this, because a lot of times, I'm sure you've heard this too, a client will come and they're in really emotional turmoil, they're really sad, they're grieving, they're traumatized, they've got a lot going on, and they'll start to tell their story and say, but I should just be grateful because I'm alive, right? Yes, and this is speaking to exactly what you're talking about, right is we get to we can be grateful and traumatized at the same time, and be able to hold space to process that trauma while we intentionally put energy into remembering that. That's not everything in life, right? That there's other good things.

15:04
Such a good point, such a good point. I mean, I was grieving the fact that I could no longer bear children, and, you know, thank goodness I had one at the time. And all my family and friends were saying, Well, look, at least you have one. But that didn't discount the fact that I was sad that I wasn't going to have more, you know. So it's just an example of of still acknowledging, like, this is hard, yeah, but I don't have to stay stuck in it. I could be proactive. And we ended up adopting a second child, which was just so, so incredible.

15:39
That's awesome, yeah? But I love I think it's just so important we talk about that. I think so many, so much of the time, I'll hear people talk about going through a cancer experience. And either the focus is very much on how much it sucked and how hard it is and what it took away from life, or the focus is like, let's just move on. Let's just leave it behind, right? Where I think about it, and you and I are trained in this, the integrative approach to life and wellness and healing, right? So just like when we're going through treatment, the integrative approach is, yeah, we'll take these medications if we believe that they'll extend our life, and they have most of the time, horrendous side effects. So we get to look for these other things to be supportive, right? And I think that's kind of that's how emotions run, too, right? Some are really hard and uncomfortable, but they exist at the same time as something else, and we can be integrated. We don't have to pick one side.

16:38
That's such a good point. That's such a good point, because you're right. Sometimes people think, Okay, I just have to go natural. I don't want anything in my body. That's it. That could, you know, do something bad, and, you know, again, that takes mindset. These things can help you, but you could also do these more natural things that that can help with side effects. So, yeah, it's a great way of looking at it.

17:02
Yeah, so I wore my abundance sweatshirt today because this what this means to me, right? Abundance. When I think about abundance again, think that people were programmed, because this language is used most of the time when it comes to money, right? Manifestation and abundance, we think about money, which is great. Nothing wrong with that. But why don't we take those concepts and apply them to relationships, our health, right, our self love, our self care and and I think what you just talked about, a gratitude practice, is a step towards that creating an abundant life. But it's so interesting how we kind of silo life into here's work. And a lot of people have a great mindset when it comes to work and what they want to accomplish, but then we come to health, life, relationships, and we just like, let me see what happens. Right? That's yeah, so I wonder if you think about the words abundance and manifesting, or manifestation, what do they mean to you? And how do we expand our view of them? So it's not only focused on finance, right?

18:18
That's such a great question. I mean, I abundance. To me, I would say, when you live with integrity to your true, authentic self, that's abundance, I feel like when I was younger. And you might agree with this too, and I know so many young people, they're just driven by money their career, and they're not looking at what they really want. Do they enjoy what they're doing? You know, is it fulfilling to them? Do they feel purposeful? So that was a big thing for me, that I learned that I wasn't living my true, authentic self. I wasn't being true to myself, I was worried about what other people wanted, what other people thought. Yeah, so I think, you know, manifestation and abundance that can work for anything. I mean, like you said, relationships, career, you know, something else I think about is, is staying curious and always trying to learn new things and and be surrounded by people who are similar, not similar to you. They don't have to be exactly similar, but want the same things as you, or want to be better, you know, and then often being being with people that are better than you, or that you think are better than you, that are maybe more successful than you, and in maybe a relationship, or, yeah, it could be anything health, and you can look up to them, and they can mentor you. You know,

19:51
absolutely, I think. And so I think this is such an important point to make, because what does manifestation mean? It means you have the power to create. Create a life you love or anything, right? You have power over something. You're manifesting it. You're creating it. It seems like so many people, again, it's this Woo, woo, magical word I love the work of Dr Tara Swartz and her book, the source where she connects neuroscience and the way your brain works to the laws of manifestation. Says, Hey, this is actually science backed like our thoughts are that powerful, the work of Bruce Lipton, biology and belief, right? Our thoughts are that powerful at a cellular level. They literally change us, right? So it's so important. And I wonder what your thoughts are on this. Do you think when you're working with clients that it is more common that they have no idea what they actually want, versus just being in what they're worried about, right? There's no clarity on what they want. So how do you start to create what you don't even know you want?

20:57
Right? That is so, so true. Yes, the majority of people I work with have no idea what they want. They just are stuck, like you said, and what they don't want in fear. And I don't want to be worried about cancer for the rest of my life. So I do think you become healthier when you again, try to be purposeful. What is are you passionate about? What are you good at? What you know, what lifts you up and makes you excited?

21:34
Yeah, and I love because you talked about curiosity. And I like to say, like, our language so powerful, and you just made a great statement, which we hear all the time, I don't want to get cancer again, or I don't want to die from cancer. When we have thoughts like that, we think that's kind of a solution oriented thought, right? Oh, I don't want to get cancer again. But what it really is is a fear based thought that's focusing on cancer, right? Where, if we want to manifest a cancer free life, we could take that thought and switch it and be like, I'm a person who lives in a healthy, cancer free body right now. It's a whole different energy. And what you said, I think is such a great simple, simple, simple thing to do that so many people don't realize, which is, you read self health books, you listen to people who healed and worked with people who healed and you learned, what did they do to heal and be healthy? Yeah? Versus what do we normally see putting all your energy into researching how many people died from the same cancer you have? Right? Yeah, very different energy. And one thing, it's important to be informed, to make an informed decision. But if healing and healthy life and healthy relationships and fulfilling work is what you want, we got to start getting clear on that. Do you think that the gratitude practice is a step towards that clarity?

23:03
Oh, I completely think so. Yeah, yes. And it's such an easy thing to do. I mean, three to five things you're grateful for every day. It could be small, it could be big, whatever you want. And, I mean, get a journal, don't I wouldn't even put it on your computer. I would get an actual journal and write it down. I know it's old fashioned, but

23:25
well, but it's important for the brain, right? We have to remember that in today's world of technology, we still have a human brain, which is an organ that works a certain way, and it is a completely different practice when we write something and show the brain what we want to create, right? Right? I'm sitting here like this is always next to me. It's not far. This is my brand new one for 2026 my planner. It's my best friend. I write it all the time. It's got notes and journaling areas, right? And when we write those things we're grateful for, I think it helps to move towards that clarity of, I want more of this in my life, right?

24:02
No doubt. Yeah, don't be afraid to dream big. I mean, we all are so, you know, we feel like we don't deserve the best, but we do, because we were born. We deserve everything, and we can make that happen. And even, you know, I think about healing and the cancer journey, not everyone heals physically, but you can heal mentally, emotionally. You can repair relationships, you know. So there's so much healing that can be done.

24:36
Absolutely, yeah, and this is, I think, an important point. It's can be confusing for people. So we talk about manifestation, and say, Okay, let's get clear on the future. Version of your life, what do you want your health to look like? How do you want your body to feel what do you want your relationships to feel like? Right? Well, how much money do you want to make in your life? What kind of work do you want to do? And then we say. Okay, now let go the outcome, right? So it's kind of like when you I took golf lessons before, which did not work out well for me, but I took golf lessons and they're like, you know, stand here, move your hips, Do this, do that. Now, relax. And you're like, what? How can I relax and doing all this, how do we get clear on what we want? But then let go of the attachment to the outcome, right?

25:25
I mean, that takes practice. There is no doubt it does take practice. And, you know, I think, like you're saying, I mean, spirituality is so important to to look at a higher power. I know not everyone believes in God, but whatever it is for you, if it's nature, you know, just, I sometimes say, This is too big for me to handle. Can you take it over for me, it's just too much, and it helps you relax. It helps calm your nervous system.

25:56
Yeah, I think of manifestations. We talk about action. You got to take action. You can sit here and wish all day long, but it's the action that you take that shit puts that energy into the universe that says, This is what I'm trying to attract, this is what I'm trying to create, right? Yes. And let's say, when it comes to healing and health, some people, okay, we're going to come up on the beginning of the year soon, and you know, 60% of the population is going to say, I want to lose 20 pounds, right, or something like that, right? And so then the 20 pounds becomes the goal, and they step on the scale every day, and if the scale doesn't shift within two weeks, they've given up. They're frustrated, right? But I think a great question when it comes to manifestation is, who do I have to become? Right to have that in my life? And I wonder, like when you are going through your own healing journey, I know for me, I write my gratitudes every morning, but I also write when I'm focusing my intention on manifesting right? And one of those is I am a person who has no evidence of disease. So then the question that follows, because I think this is the powerful thing in journaling. When you write what you want, your brain will immediately tell you why you can't have it, right? And then you see that thought you're like, Okay, that's the thought I have to work on. When I initially started writing that, my brain was like, that's not possible. You can't have that. You have widespread stage four disease. Everyone tells you you can't heal. Right? All the language we hear, it's incurable. It's incurable. And so you've got to do the work to decide, am I going to believe this or not? You know, so to let go of the outcome. I think, instead of focusing on the Do I have no evidence of diseases? Who is the person I have to become to get there? What does a person who has no evidence of disease choose every day? Yes, right?

27:46
Yeah. And I think a big thing is harmony. You know, harmony in your life. I mean, that's huge in every aspect, yeah, no, not fighting, not resisting, yeah.

28:01
And now, and I love that. I love because resistance. I don't even think that most of the time we understand what resistance is, because a lot of people right think it's just logic. I want this, but that's not possible, because this is how things work, and they don't realize the brain is resisting trying to get there. So here you are, a 30 year old with an advanced diagnosis, advanced stage of a really serious internal cancer. You're in fear. You decide I want to use this fear as motivation. Well, to me, that says you see changes you want to make. Well, what's the first thing that comes up when we decide to make change? More fear here, right? Yeah. How do we make that change? What will it look like if I change that? How did you deal with that? What are some tips you have for people who are like as soon I see this change and I talk myself right out of it, because it's so scary to think of, I don't know what life will look like if I make that change.

29:00
Such a good question. I I would say, Just do it. I mean, I know that's a mighty slogan, but even you know Mel Robbins talks about 54321, do it. Because when you're in action, you feel so much better. You know, you feel like you're in control. And I know with cancer, so much of the time you feel like you're out of control. You know, I know my I felt like my body failed me, and I'm sure you did as well, and other people that are listening. So, you know, I know we mentioned about taking action before, but it's, it's the most. I know, it's not simple. And you know, I think, like you only fail if you don't try. I mean, so what do you have to lose? I mean, you only have things to gain. I made such good friends, you know, by reaching out to people. All, you know, a community of other survivors who understood what I was going through. And, you know, I don't know, I can't say enough of just get out of the fear. I know it's, it's easier said than done, but take more. You know, small baby steps. It doesn't take anything huge, just something little. You know, today I'm gonna go on a video and do some weightlifting. You know, really light depending on what you're going through right now, but just something to take action. And it does not have to be huge

30:38
at all. And I think this is such a great point because you said something a few minutes ago. It's like, dream big, right? So I get a stage four cancer diagnosis. You get a stage three cu cancer diagnosis, and we say, Oh, I'm going to heal. That's a pretty big flip and dream, yeah, right. It really is. Most people would not say that. And in fact, I'm sure you see this all the time. I get clients to come to me all the time and say, Oh, this is my stage of diagnosis. There's nothing they can do about it. This is my stage of diagnosis. It's incurable. And every time I hear that, I'm, ah, my insides just like, cringe a little bit, because I'm like, oh, I want you to not tell yourself this is incurable, right? So if we dream really big, what's wrong with that, right? But the problem is sometimes, if we're dreaming really big, we tell ourselves we have to go from right here, where this is what I want, really big dream to. I'm like, 500,000 miles away from really big dream, and I think I should be there tomorrow, right? So what you said is so important. What's the next thing? If you write on your manifestation, I in 2026 have the healthiest body I've ever had in my life, right? If you write that down, and then you go out somewhere and your friends have a table full of croissants and cakes and cupcakes, what that does is it allows you to say, if I choose this for me right now? Is it moving me closer to the healthiest version of myself that I've decided to become? Right? And so I think what you said, you said it's not simple. I think it is simple. I think it's so simple people underestimate the power of simplicity. But simple and easy is not the same thing, exactly right? So it's simple, but it's hard at the same time, right?

32:23
Our mind gets in the way. That's the part that's not as easy, right?

32:29
I could come up with this litany of ideas. It's like, if you think, well, one of those won't you know that's not gonna get me to the healthiest version of myself. The next thought would be, but one won't hurt, and I could get back on track tomorrow, right? The mind will just start throwing out all kinds of reasons why you should get the dopamine hit right now.

32:47
So true, so true. And, you know, I also think I have a group of friends who are all into health, and we go hiking together and and do fun things together, and we talk about healthy eating and what we're doing on the weekend, and you know so and I'm not saying don't be with your other friends that you know that that might drink or eat something you don't want to eat, but it's great to spend time with those people too that just are on the same journey as you. I mean, it doesn't have to be cancer, but just that are looking to improve themselves, to fuel their bodies. And, yeah, really think about their life,

33:30
different energy, right? And again, I think going back to paying attention to your language, if you hear yourself saying, I feel so drained when I hang out with that person, or, oh my God, I feel so inspired when I come when I'm hanging out with that group of people. Pay attention to that, because it's significant, right? And again, when we go back to abundance, manifestation and finances, if you're in business or you're you're at a job and you're trying to be successful, or climb the ladder, or whatever it is you're trying to do with money. What do we do? We hang around with people who've been successful at making money, investing money, planning for retirement, whatever, whatever. Why wouldn't we choose that exact same thing for people who are in healthy relationships? What do you do? What's your secret? How do you handle certain things, healthy lifestyle? What do you do? You know someone the other day was telling me about some kind not professional coaching, but guidance they were getting from another person in their life about their relationship, and when they started to share with me about this other person in their life, this other person is in a relationship where they are literally verbally abused on a regular basis, right? And as this person was talking me and saying, Oh yeah, when I went over their house, this was what was going on at their house. And I said, and this is the person that you're getting relationship counseling from. This is a person who's allowing someone to verbally abuse. Them and helping you. So we really have to think about that. It's like, if I want to manifest the healthiest relationships, I've got to expose myself to people with healthy relationships, right?

35:12
Exactly, exactly. And you just made me think, listen to your gut. And I know so many people have trouble listening to their gut. They don't know. You know what that means, but I always think like, if it feels expansive, if being around that person feels expansive, then do it. If you feel restrictive, you know your body is telling you something like, No, this is not a good thing for me.

35:40
So true. We've got to make best friends with our body. And you said something that I think is a very common belief. After a cancer diagnosis, my body betrayed me, right? My body let me down. And this is something we have to give so much attention to if we want to create a life we live. What's your body telling you? And like you said, too, Haley, and like I could say, you know, before my first diagnosis, you said, you know, I was doing all the wrong things. So who betrayed? Who Right? Like, did our body betray us? Or has our body saying I have gas, I have bloating, I have constipation, I am stressed. We We look back and say, Oh, that Job was killing me a little bit every day. You know, we have this language again. We're not listening to ourselves or giving credit to what our body is signaling to us and telling us, right? So, yeah, when we want to create that life we want, in addition to your advice, take baby steps, is also acknowledge baby successes, right? Like, point, yeah, I did this one because a lot of times I'll say I didn't get there, right? I'm trying to do this. And I'll hear people say, I'm not there yet, but I'm trying, but I'm just not there. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's just reframe, say, I'm in the process, and then let's say, and here's all the great things I did last week. Instead of having 12 Pepsis, I had eight. That's a success, right, right? Yeah. Last week, instead of lifting three times a week and running 10 miles a day, I walked for 10 minutes a day. Fantastic success, absolutely. Right. And the first steps to manifesting a hat a happy, healthy, active lifestyle,

37:27
no doubt, no doubt, yes. And, you know, I just am thinking of one other thing, because I interviewed someone on the podcast who had stage four pancreatic cancer. His name was Andy Campbell, and he was such an inspiration. I mean, he it was quite a story. I mean, he was bullied as a kid. He his son committed suicide. I mean, horrible things. And he again his mindset. I mean, he was moving forward in a way that no one can imagine with that kind of loss and that kind of health issue. And, you know, I know I mentioned curiosity before, but that was one of his biggest principles, to stay curious. And if your doctor you know you're worried about your health, if your doctor is not curious, is only doing standard protocol and not trying anything else, or, Oh, I studied this, I saw this. Then maybe it's time to find a new doctor. You know, even if it's a primary care I mean, they, they can be in your corner. So I just wanted to mention that, because he was so, oh, it just he had such an impression on me. I mean, I interview so many amazing people that are just incredible. But I just had to share

38:47
that stands out. Okay, we'll have to link to that episode in the show notes for this so people listen to that. Yeah, that would be great. And you make a point. So again, when we think about manifesting, it means, what do you want to create in your life? And if you are in a situation where you're going through treatment, or you're looking for support from standard of care or and I've seen this happen with naturopathic physicians as well. If you're creating a support team, if you're like, This is the team of experts and professionals I want in my corner, and they're not doing what you need them to do. I just had a message this week from someone on Instagram who messaged me because she had seen a podcast where or she had listened to a podcast where I was talking about something. She had a question about it, and she said, I'm interested in this, but I'm afraid to ask my oncologist, because if you question or she gets mad and yells at me, and I'm like, Well, it's time to fire oncologists, right? For sure, yeah. And so we have to think about, what do we want to create on every conceivable level, like in my medical care, I want a compassionate, supportive team, right? You get to create. That you get to interview doctors, you get to ask questions, you get to get referrals. You get to say, here's where I stand, and are you okay with that? Like my doctor doesn't agree with a lot of the choices I make, but we have an agreement that I'll be honest with him so that he doesn't do anything that harms me with you know, the standard of care medication is doing so he understands what I'm doing, so that we can bring this together. Because he knows I'm going to do what I'm going to do, right? But I want him to be on my team. I want I don't need him to believe in my choices, but I need him to be knowledgeable about the choices I'm making. Yeah, right, and so that's what's important. And I've seen people choose naturopathic doctors and come to me in tears because the naturopathic doctor is so staunch about zero room for any change, right? Zero room for deviation. You gotta bite a cake. What are you talking about? Right? And so then they're in tears. I'm like, okay, maybe this isn't the person you should be working with, right, right? So again, thinking about, what do you want to create on every conceivable level in your life that has to start to get there?

41:15
Yeah, it's such a good point. And just what you're saying you're you're right, because people think that their doctor is in this white coat and they know everything, but you have such good intuition. You know your body. You know when something doesn't feel right. So get those second opinions if someone is not treating you how you want to be treated, if they're rushing you out of your the office, go look for someone else.

41:40
Yes, I love that. And so many people just truly do not believe they have the power to do that, especially they'll say, Well, it's my insurance. That's the doctor my insurance sent me to. There will, there are other doctors, right? There are ways around this. You deserve that support. And you know, I think when we don't get it too, it drives so if we in my philosophy, Healing Foundation, self love, self compassion, number one, you got to learn to love yourself, because if you do not love yourself, you will tolerate bullshit that will not serve you. And one of that, one of those things, is a doctor who doesn't support you or shames you or God yells at you? Are you kidding me right now? Yeah, no, if you love yourself, you know, like you've said already so many times. Haley, you deserve the best things. Yeah, you deserve all good things. You deserve gentle support. You deserve guidance. You deserve this. But if you if you hear us saying that here on this show, and your first thought is, I don't or maybe I don't deserve all of it, or I'm not worthy, or it's not possible for me, those are the thoughts that need work on right now, because those are the foundations when you deserve that like I cannot imagine if I saw a doctor and they raised their voice at me, I'm out the door before they even finished the sentence, like there's no way in the world I would tolerate someone speaking to me like that, right, right, let alone think about this poor woman. I'm so glad she reached out, because here she's her body, like you said, her intuition is saying, I think I need that. What you were talking about makes sense with what I'm going through, but I'm afraid to ask, because I'll get yelled at, because that's been my experience, right? Yeah, I mean, we have to think about what that means if we're again, like you said, authentic to ourself, we've got to be our best friend and our own advocate, right? Right?

43:40
Because she's not respecting herself. She's just worried about what the doctor is saying. And I know, you know, again, it's a lot of people have to work on that. But look you, if you're listening to this and you're going through cancer, you deserve to heal every aspect of of your self and your body, and just again, little steps to be positive and to, you know, like, like, I'm thinking of self compassion, you know, maybe taking a bath, or like, these little things you could do to show yourself love it again is a practice, and it doesn't always come natural to people. Because, especially women, we're such caretakers. We're always looking to take care of others. So just these little things you can do to take care of yourself, you know, even talking on the phone with a friend that gets you, you know, just for 10 minutes if you only have 10 minutes, but those little things you could do to show yourself compassion and love,

44:46
yeah, and you're so right that women have such a hard time allowing themselves to receive, right? That's another work. So when people talk about healing, this just comes to mind as we're talking about this, right? So we think of health, what do we think? Gov, exercise and food, right? Nutrition and Exercise, this is what we do. And then when I say, Oh my God, there's so much more in people, and even me, and you probably you too, before you started studying with MT, ih, and we started learning the metabolic approach and being mentored by nation winter. Dr, nation Winters is like, holy cow. There's so many layers to this. And when people say, what are the layers? These are the layers self, love, being authentic, listening to your body and your intuition and not questioning it, right, no matter what our gut tells us, saying, God, my gut, I've got a really strong feeling here. And I think even research and reading and listening to people speak of the power of intuition, because we'll kind of dismiss it so easily as Woo, woo, that it is one of the healing factors in radical remission, right, strengthening the belief in your intuition. Exactly. Yeah, there's this really cool books, old, I don't know, at least 1015, years old. Now. It's called The Gift of fear, and it's written by this guy who's a security expert for like royalty and politicians and super wealthy people. The book is so fascinating because he says every other animal pays attention to their intuition. If a deer feels fear, they run. If an animal feels fear, they're out of there. But when human women feel fear, they judge themselves, they question themselves. They worry about what other people will think if they speak up or if they walk away, we don't trust our own intuition. And in that book, it's a little triggering, because it it relates some really physically terrifying, frightening things that have happened to women who then came to this guy to for protection and share their story about my gut was telling me no, but I didn't want him to think I was a bitch. I didn't want him to think I was rude, right? And so I think that's just such a powerful thing again for us. This is another layer of healing. Look at, are we living by other people's

47:15
thoughts, yes and expectations,

47:19
because we can't manifest what we want in our life if we don't know what we want. We already said that if we're not clear, if we think we have to want what other people want us to want or want us to believe exactly how we're never going to figure that out.

47:35
You got it so powerful. It really is. It really is? It really is.

47:42
So I wonder if you could leave anybody with a tip and say, Listen, if you want to create your best life, start here. What would that be? Even if it was one thing you already said, What do you think would be? Start here?

47:58
I would say, Never give up. You know, stay persistent. Even if you didn't see success yet, that doesn't mean you're not going to see it. Keep searching and keep being curious.

48:10
Yeah, love that. The only way to fail is to just stop Exactly, right? Yeah. And I think even when it comes to healing. I remember hearing Naisha say this one time in our community, someone in our community had passed away, and she was addressing that, and she was saying, how often times people who are following the metabolic approach or an integrative approach are working on healing. And as you said, healing or healing doesn't always mean a cure, right? Healing has many different facets, and she said, we don't look at this person and think of this person as a failure, and especially because this person lived 17 years beyond what the original prognosis was talk about success, right? So we have to think about the journey. We have to think about who we become and staying consistent and keep showing up for yourself with curiosity and with compassion. Is everything when it comes to creating a life you love, like it's not linear, right? Yeah, there's ups and downs and back and forth. And if we beat ourselves up, and I like to say, like, Curiosity is the anecdote for self judgment, because you cannot be in judgment if you're curious, right? You can be like, Wow, that was a interesting thought I just had about myself. Wonder why I thought that that's interesting, versus, oh my god, I'm crazy. Oh my god, I'm so stupid. Oh my god, I'm a hot mess, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly. I love that. I think it's great advice. So some tips people can take with them. Start writing your gratitudes, and if your brain says that. Nothing. I hear that all the time. Try it. Have you tried it?

50:03
Right, right, right? And like we talked about before, write down what you want. You know, because if you don't really think about it and write it down, it's going to be hard to manifest it. So write all those things that you want in your life. How do you want to live? How do you you know, is it important for you to play with your grandchildren someday? You know, what are all those things you want in your life?

50:31
So true, and if there's not clarity, if you don't know what you want, ask yourself, How do I want to feel? Let's start there. I want to feel at peace. I want to feel calm. I want to feel loved. Right? If you start there, then you can say, well, what things make me feel peaceful? What can I do? Right? And little by little, as you take those steps, you develop clarity. And then one day, I love, love the saying. It's like you never know how you're going to get where you want to be, until you get there and you look back and you go, Oh, so that's how I did it. That's how it happens, right? And that's the truth. You just keep showing up exactly.

51:11
We might not know the way, but if we know what we want, we'll be led the way, yeah.

51:16
How many podcast episodes have you done now at this point? Oh, at this

51:20
point 118

51:23
so I publish it every other week now, just because I couldn't keep up. So it's Yeah.

51:29
And when you started off and decided I want to do a podcast, did you ever think, how will I

51:35
get to 118 episodes? Right?

51:38
Oh, exactly. I just thought, I think it would be great to do a podcast and an integrative cancer recovery and all that. And I thought, Okay, I'm gonna try it. And I went online and found someone that can help me do it. It just, you know, those baby steps. And I listened to videos and just tried it, you know. And I'm no different that. I mean, I used to live in fear. I'm just, you know, I'm saying like I came from a family who had such anxiety and lived in fear, and I had to push through that for myself. I mean, I I could stay home every day and do nothing, you know, easily, but it is about pushing yourself. And I always think when you get out of your comfort zone, amazing things happen. It never ever fails. Do you agree absolutely?

52:32
Growth never comes from comfort. I wish it did. You know how many times I walk by a bakery and I say, God, I wish I could heal eating good croissant every day. God, I wish I could heal having an Espresso Martini every night. Wouldn't that be lovely, right? Yeah, and but it is that growth doesn't come from that we don't manifest the things that are great for us and supportive of us with a beautiful energy from our comfort zone. It just doesn't happen. It's so true.

53:05
And you know, you're just making me think. I just saw a quote on Instagram, and it said, don't shrink to be loved. Grow and see who stays. And I love that, I love that it was from Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx, so I just find her amazing.

53:22
But yeah, yeah, she is amazing. I love that. And we're gonna link to your podcast because I want people to listen your stories of inspiration, I think are part of the pathway to manifesting life you want, and to getting out of fear, right, to hearing from people who've been through so much and understanding that it is a conscious and intentional choice, right? It's not like here's 118 people who are somehow super human that beamed up from another planet, right? They're humans, and we're humans. And if some humans can do it, we can do it too, right?

53:59
Exactly. I love that,

54:02
and that's what I love. Being around people who have what what I more right, like, if I want to build a certain business, I want to be around people who 10x to that right. I want to be around their energy. I want to hear what they did this weekend with someone, and she's an assistant for a very successful coach, and that coach is very successful financially. She's got a lot of clients. Her business is much bigger than mine, and as she started telling me everything they do, I said, Yeah, I want to work that hard, like I love the tips for certain things you guys do, but I have no aspiration to work 18 hours a day. I have no aspiration to work from 6am to 8pm every night, right? So knowing what you want is one thing, being around people. Who have more is another thing, because it can give you great ideas to get where you want to be, but it doesn't mean you have to be where they are as well, right?

55:07
Such a good point. Such a good point, because you could put way too much pressure on yourself. Yeah? Again, yeah.

55:15
I'm like, Oh, dang. I see clients three days a week. I don't start till 10, four o'clock. I'm making dinner. Great.

55:23
It's balance and it it's harmony, right?

55:26
Exactly. It's like I have one priority, and it is to support the healing of this body, and exhaustion doesn't fit that, so I'm not going to manifest that healing if I don't do the things that support it, right? For sure. Well, I hope this has helped people get a little bit of a shift. I think that that shift in perspective of, what does it mean to manifest, what does it mean to have abundance, and how do you use your mind, like, what are technically steps that you can do to change your thoughts? And I hope that they picked up some great tips, and will link to your podcast, and especially to the episode that you spoke of, so we can get more inspiration out there. Absolutely, thank you so great. I could talk to you forever. Haley, I know it's gonna be an Andrew Huberman podcast. If we don't cut it off soon, we'll go on for hours, exactly. All right. Well, it's great. Thank you for being here.

56:26
You've put your courage to the test, laid all your doubts to rest. Your mind is clearer than before, your heart is full and wanting more. Your Future's at the door. Give it all. You got no hesitating. You've been waiting all your life. This is your moment.

56:56
This is your moment. This is your moment.

57:15
This is your moment.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai