#353 Collagen and Breast Cancer Recovery - How to Use Food to Reduce Pain and Improve Healing
Do you need supplements? Are you getting enough protein?
These are questions I always hear, and the answer is, that you don’t know unless you take some time to track your food and look at your blood work.
However, you can add foods that are high in protein and nutrients, easy for your body to absorb, and support your wellness while helping to reduce pain.
In this episode, we’ll discuss an important nutrient, collagen, and the food and supplements that can help deliver this useful protein.
When you understand what food does for your body, it’s so much easier to feel motivated to nourish yourself.
Referred to in this episode:
Books:
Nourishing Broth
Products:
Vital Proteins Collagen Peptides
Follow me on Social Media:
Read the full transcript:
0:00 You're listening to better than before breast cancer with the breast cancer recovery coach. I'm your host, Laura Lummer. I'm a certified life coach, and I'm a breast cancer thriver. In this podcast, I will give you the skills and the insights and the tools to move past the emotional and physical trauma of a breast cancer diagnosis. If you're looking for a way to create a life, that's even better than before breast cancer, you've come to the right place. Let's get started.
0:33
Hey, friends, welcome to episode 353. I'm your host, Laura Lummer. And this is our Tuesday terrain talk. I love doing this episode. But before I jump into it, and I know you're gonna love what we talked about today, I have a favorite ask of you. So it's interesting, you know, when you have an online business these days, you depend a lot on a social media presence to get your message out into the world. So the people that might be able to benefit from what you have to say or offer can find you. And recently I got a notice from Facebook saying that, even though they would let people find my page on Facebook and Instagram, they would no longer recommend it. Because I talk about health related topics. It's a little disappointing, because I talk about health related topics not in any type of controversial way, but only in a way that I hope supports you and give someone information that might help them support themselves. So that means I'm going to ask you for a really big favor. If you watch this podcast on YouTube, if you listen to it on whatever your podcast platform is, if you see a podcast clip on my Facebook page, or my Instagram page, if you're a follower on social media, and you like something or you benefit from something, I would really appreciate it if you would subscribe, follow or share the podcast especially share so that someone else who might need to hear this, someone else who might get a diagnosis and feel alone can find some information that will support them. And so I'm gonna turn to my community and just know everything will work out the way it's supposed to work out. But I know that there's a lot of information in these over 300 episodes of this podcast that can benefit people and you're sharing your liking your following helps it to be found and helps it to be seen. Alright, so thanks for that. That's my public service announcement. And now, let's get into this topic. So if you had a breast cancer diagnosis, and you've gone through treatment, there's a high likelihood that you're either put on Tamoxifen, or an aromatase inhibitor. If you went through chemotherapy, depending on your age, there's a high likelihood that you went into chemically induced menopause. And because most of us who are diagnosed with breast cancer are diagnosed over the age of 50, you may already be in menopause, and then have these treatments that just add on to it. Meaning that one of the really powerful and uncomfortable side effects of all the things the aging, the menopause, the treatments, the aromatase inhibitors that Tamoxifen is joint pain, and bone issues. And I get a lot of questions where people ask me about what can they do about their pain, because when we're uncomfortable, we associate pain with don't do anything, right? We think if I'm achy, if my joints are hurting, I shouldn't go out and do things because that's going to make the pain worse, when actually movement is going to be very helpful, it's going to be very helpful in getting the synovial fluid and moving in your body in your joints. But that's not what this show is about. We're not talking about exercise, we're talking about what can you do nutritionally, that may support you that simple. That's very doable. And that can not only support joint and bone health, but also gut health, skin appearance, and God knows that lots of the treatments that we go through and definitely menopause have an effect on our skin. And my friends, there's nothing wrong with a little vanity and wanting to look the way you want to look. So don't worry about that. If they're, you know, it wouldn't be a multibillion dollar industry if we weren't concerned about the way we look. So what can we do nutritionally to support ourselves? And not necessarily this is not a treatment, but what can we do nutritionally to support our body and our ability to maybe minimize that pain and feel more comfortable moving and improve the tissue structure in our body? Well, let's take a look at what aromatase inhibitors I'm talking about a nasty Rizal XMS stain letrozole. These are some of our aromatase inhibitors. These are a class of drugs that are commonly prescribed for mostly hormone receptor positive breast cancer. And the aromatase inhibitors the AIs are particularly prescribed to post menopausal women. Because these drugs block the enzyme aromatase, which converts androgens and you may have heard androgens you think of testosterone that's one of the most popular or well known androgens. But androgens not only can contribute to the development of a male reproductive system and of men in general, but androgens also control metabolic energy, and they maintain skeletal and body protein and they also contribute to brain capabilities and behavioral development. So these drugs block this enzyme aromatase, which converts androgens into estrogens, and then that reduces the estrogen level in our body. And what tamoxifen does is it blocks the cell receptor. So they they kind of have the same end game, but they work through different mechanisms. And while they both can be really effective in the treatment, or the reduction of risk for recurrence for breast cancer, they do come with a side effect of very commonly creating joint related issues. And that's because estrogen plays a really important role in maintaining joint health, because it reduces inflammation, and it supports the repair of joint tissues. So with that reduction in estrogen levels that we go through, we can really experience a lot of increased if we already had some increased joint inflammation. And we can also experience the breakdown the degradation of joint cartilage, something else that estrogen does is that it helps to maintain the production of synovial fluid, and that's the glue that lubricates our joints. So when estrogen de la has scientific I am that's the Gu is the juice is the joint use when estrogen levels drop, so to synovial fluid. And so that leads to joint stiffness and pain. And as I alluded to just a minute ago, one of the things that helps us to produce more synovial fluid is exercise exercises, medicine. But again, we're not talking about exercise in this show. So let's talk about what we can do that can be really beneficial for our joint health. Well, collagen, as I'm sure you've heard, when we're talking about skin health, everybody's heard of collagen right all the the most famous skin treatments say they rebuild collagen, and collagen is the most abundant protein in our body, it makes up about 30% of the total protein content in our body that's considerable. And it's a key structural component in our skin, bones, muscles, tendons, and ligaments. So collagen provides strength and elasticity. And it helps our tissues withstand stretching and stress. So the benefits of supplementing with collagen can have a lot of benefits, particularly with those of us who are actually dealing with if you're experiencing these side effects or joint stiffness and pain. So that's what we're talking about today. Let's look at some of the benefits that are different types of collagen. We're going to talk about two different types of collagen, collagen, protein and collagen peptides. And I'm going to tell you, how we can get those into our diet, how we can get those into our body, how we can look for which ones are good quality, and how you can support yourself. So one of the benefits of collagen, as I just talked about is that it improves skin elasticity and hydration. And it can actually reduce wrinkles and dryness, which is why those med spas make all kinds of money on injectables that rebuild collagen. So there was a study in 2014 that found that the oral intake of specific bioactive collagen peptides, significantly reduced skin wrinkles, and increased the dermal matrix synthesis which means the process with by which certain cells create collagen fibers and elastic fibers. And so that's great news for maintaining healthy, youthful skin. Something to also keep in mind by something else that affects our skin. And that is radiation treatment going through breast cancer and also surgeries. So having enough collagen peptides and collagen protein in your body can really help to facilitate the rebuilding of that structure of the skin so that it can support your healing. Now I mentioned obviously collagen is going to support joint function and it can actually reduce joint pain and stiffness. So there was a study done in 2008. And it showed that After 24 weeks of collagen hydrolysate supplementation, joint pain was significantly reduced in athletes. And because of the results this study showed, they also speculated that this collagen supplementation could reduce the risk of joint deterioration in high risk groups. There was another study in 2018, published in the Journal of nutrients. This was a 12 month long study. And it demonstrated that the intake of specific collagen peptides again so there's a difference between collagen protein and collagen peptides, which we'll touch on in a minute. But the intake over 12 months daily of specific collagen peptides increased bone mineral density in postmenopausal women, who was had primarily age related reduction of bone mineral density. And it was associated with a really favorable shift in bone markers, indicating that there was increased bone formation and reduced bone degradation in the women in this study. So two more beneficial areas. And by the way, I will post links to the studies in the show notes for this episode, you can find those where you're listening to this podcast, if you're watching on YouTube, or go to the breast cancer recovery coach.com, forward slash 353. And you'll see all the links. But two more beneficial areas that collagen supports our body is in muscle mass and gut health. So collagen helps in maintaining muscle mass, and it supports the increase in muscle mass if we're doing resistance training. And that's super crucial for mobility, strength, balance and healthy aging. I cannot tell you enough on like clapping my hands and making emphasis here because as we age, and especially women, I cannot tell you how many women say to me, Oh, I don't want to look like a man, my friends, it takes so much effort to build the kind of muscle that is going to make a woman look like a man that I promise you, just with doing two, two, even three days of moderate resistance training exercises a week, you are not going to look like a man, you'd be lucky to build some more muscle mass to help improve and to support the mobility of your body, the strength of your body so that you have more balanced so you don't find yourself one of those positions where I've fallen and I can't get up. And that's a result of older people not having upper body strength to lift themselves up off the ground. Two different things one, upper body strength and two, the ability to get up without using your hands. Have you ever tried that? Sit on the floor. And think about how much core strength it would take. If you sit on the floor. And you get up without using your hands. Try that when you get home. If you are home, if you're listening to this, try to sit down on the ground and get up without using your hands. If you cannot do it, this is a great thing to keep trying every day sitting on that floor and working towards getting yourself up without using your hands. And building that strength. So both upper body strength and core strength, the ability to get yourself up off of the floor really are some big indicators when it comes to mortality. So if we want to have healthy aging, we've got to have healthy muscles. And you don't have to worry about looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Because for people who compete in fitness competitions and all of that stuff and have a lot of muscles. They are so disciplined. And they work out so long and so hard and their nutrition is dialed in. I mean, it takes a lot of commitment to get a body to look like that. So we're just talking about normal, healthy fit body, maybe a little less, you know, most of my friends call them angel wing loose skin on the back of your arms, right? I kind of went off on a tangent there. But muscle is so important. And the intake of collagen really supports that. And cancer treatments can lead to muscle weakness. And muscle wasting is an interesting thing with our body because our body is designed to conserve energy. You know, it's always easier to gain weight than it is to lose weight, isn't it? And it's always easier to lay on the couch than it is to get up and go to the gym. So when we don't feel well and we're going through cancer treatments and we're going through chemotherapy and radiation, holy cow, I cannot I cannot even describe the depth of fatigue I experienced when I went through 30 rounds of radiation, right it was just mind numbing. So and you have to rest you have to nap you have to allow your body to heal and we heal when we Sleep. So, of course, your body is going to get weaker and weaker, because you lose muscle faster and a lot easier, then you gain muscle and it takes energy in your body to support and hold on to and maintain muscle mass. So if we sit around and we're not building muscle, and our body is like, well, you're not building it, and you're not using it. So let's redirect that energy into somewhere else. Where does it get redirected to most of the time, energy storage, and what does that mean? more body fat, okay, so cancer treatments can lead to a lot of weakness, because we tend to have to not be as mobile. So we've got to be really intentional about exercise, especially when we're done with active treatment. And we're in recovery and we want to rebuild that strength. Cancer as it advances can lead to a really devastating state of being that's called cacao Axio, where the cancer itself is actually consuming muscle. And we want to avoid that stage at all costs, right. So collagen protein is a great source of amino acids. And amino acids support muscle protein synthesis, so they support creating more proteins, amino, there's nine essential amino acids, which means we've got to get those from the diet, our body doesn't make those right. So consuming collagen helps us to get that nice combination of more amino acids to support more muscle protein synthesis and rebuild our muscle mass and our strength. Collagen is also this may be surprising to collagen is really referred to as the fiber of animal protein. And collagen can aid in maintaining the integrity of the gut lining. And that's essential for nutrient absorption and reducing inflammation. So leaky gut is not only a problem for people who have lots of processed foods, ultra processed foods, high sugar, high inflammatory foods in their diet, but it also can be a result of chemotherapy. If you've been through chemotherapy, you know, it tears up your gut, it destroys those cells in our bodies that are quick to reproduce, and our gut lining it are some of those cells that get a major impact from chemotherapy, and then it can create leaky gut. And in fact, with some chemotherapies, leaky gut is part of the mechanism that helps to make that chemo so much more effective, because leaky gut means that some things can get through that intestinal lining and into the body that wouldn't normally get through. So with some medications, it might benefit the effectiveness of that medication, but it's also having a major impact on your health. Right. So collagen can actually support the integrity of that gut lining. So as we're healing we're working on achieving optimal health. This can be a really important part of our nutrition program. And I'll go into exactly what amino acids support that in just a second, as I talk to you about how you can get this collagen into your diet. So one fantastic way to get collagen into your diet is by drinking bone broth daily. Yeah, bone broth is naturally rich in collagen. Because collagen is broken down in the preparation of bone broth. It's broken down into gelatin during the cooking process. And the gelatin contains some important amino acids like glycine, proline and hydroxyproline. And these amino acids are essential for collagen synthesis in the body. Bone broth is also packed with lots of other nutrients to support overall health. It's got minerals like calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, and potassium and those are vital for electrolyte balance and bone health. It's got Glucosamine and Chondroitin compounds that support joint health by promoting cartilage repair and reducing inflammation. The amino acid glycine supports detoxification and improves sleep quality Prolene is crucial for skin house and glutamine is that wonderful amino acid that helps to maintain a healthy gut lining and that strengthens your gut barrier so that it prevents unwanted substances from getting into the bloodstream and then creating more inflammation, bone broth and because of all these amino acids and the nutrients in it promotes healthy digestion and nutrient absorption. So you know when you think about bone broth, I think about soup, you know, I think about chicken noodle soup and when do you get offered soup and broth when you don't feel well, right? Well, Bone broth contains amino acids like arginine, glutamine, cysteine, and these all support the immune system. So it can be really beneficial for people recovering from illness or undergoing treatments. Chemotherapy, which is not only weakening the immune system, but you don't feel good. You know, when I was going through chemo, eating was the worst I had blisters in my mouth, I had blisters in my throat. So bone broth can be very soothing and give you a lot of nutrition without being difficult to digest or chew or anything like that. Bone broth is hydrating. It's a hydrating beverage, because it contains electrolytes. And so that helps to maintain proper hydration and electrolyte balance, which is also really important for those of us undergoing medical treatments. So currently, I take an oral chemotherapy, and there's no question in my mind, on my chemotherapy weeks how much more dehydrated I get, it clearly affects my hydration. And so I make a point of making bone broth on a weekly basis and drinking bone broth on a daily basis. And I even add probably half a teaspoon to a teaspoon of salt, I'll make my bone broth on Sundays, and then put it in mason jars. And then as I warm it up, I add more salt to that bone broth. And then I drink a jar of bone broth. Sometimes in the morning, like I'll have a cup of coffee. And I think I'll have a class of bone broth or I just have it in the afternoon. And it's a really delicious satiating. Pick me up. I kind of got hooked on bone broth years ago when I first started fasting, because when I first started fasting bone broth is considered to be kind of like the training wheels, right? If you're trying to do a longer fast and you feel really hungry, and your head starts getting in the game going, oh my god, I can't make them too hungry, you can just turn to bone broth, and it's got so much flavor because of the way it's prepared. I'm going to talk about preparation and the importance of preparation here in just a minute. But I've thrown lots of herbs into it and vegetables and stuff. So it's got a lot of flavor. And when you drink this warm, delicious bone broth, which because I follow a ketogenic diet, and bone broth is high in protein, I want to add fat as well also add a tablespoon or two of garlic infused olive oil basil infused olive oil, you know other things that have a lot of flavors. So it's really delicious. And it's giving me lots of good healthy fats as well. So let's talk about how do you make bone broth because I hear this all day. How do you make it sounds like such a big deal. Now you can buy bone broth, and I'll talk to you about some reputable companies. And I'll link to some of them in the show notes as well. But the important thing when you're making bone broth, it's actually pretty easy. And a lot of people struggle with food prep, what do I eat? What do I have available? What is easy. And I think that for me preparing bone broth is not only great, because I've got bone broth jars, Mason jars full of bone broth in my fridge that I can grab at any time if I'm feeling hungry and don't have time to sit and actually start making an actual meal during the day. But I've got the shredded chicken. So I get the chicken and it's a pasture raised chicken, I want to make sure that there's no chemicals that this is a pasture raised organic chicken, because if it isn't, and it's been exposed to lots of chemicals, or it's been given antibiotics, I don't want that in either the meat or the bones because I'm about to put it through a process where it's going to extract stuff from the bones. So you want to start with a really high quality chicken. Now you don't have to start with a whole chicken. And I'll tell you why. And what you can do in just a couple minutes. But one of the things I like to do is start with a whole chicken because then I roast the chicken in my instant pot, you don't have to do an instant pot, you can do it no oven. And then I take all of that meat and shred it and I put it in a glass container and I keep it to put on top of salads or add to other dishes during the week. Then I take the bones and put them back into the pot that I cook the chicken and so I've already got some juices and some fats from the chicken and I put the bones back in. And then I throw in vinegar I throw in about a tablespoon of vinegar because that vinegar helps to extract that collagen out of the bones. And I throw in onions, leeks, I change it up a lot. And I think that variety is important. So I'm gonna give you a great resource, I think is a phenomenal resource for bone broth. It's called nourishing broths it will give you the science behind broth and it'll give you a bunch of different recipes for making bone broth. But let's look at how these nutrient profiles can vary and why this is important. So you can also go to a butcher and just pick up bones. I use grassroots Co Op, and I can buy beef bones from them I can buy this sounds so gross and it really is gross. Like when I cook with them it kind of grosses me out. I won't lie, but I know that it's really nutritious chicken feet. I can buy the chicken back from them so I can just have the bones already and use the bones if I don't have the time or feel like going through the process of cooking a whole chicken. So when you use different animal Bones, they all provide unique nutrients. So chicken bones, for example, original what's called type two collagen. And that's really good for joint health. beef bones are higher in type one and type three collagen. And that supports skin, bone and gut health. So when you're using them for culinary reason, so for example, I keep those jars of bone broth in my refrigerator and I drink them, but I use them in things that I cook all the time, I use my homemade bone broth, I know what's in it and I know what flavor it's going to give to my food. So when you use a different mix of animal bones, it creates a really rich complex flavor. And it makes bone broth really versatile. So you can use it for adding to anything soup stews, I cook my vegetables, and I cook all kinds of things in it, like just throw some dang bone broth, I put it into sauces, all kinds of stuff that I cook, so I know that I'm getting more collagen. So using a mix of different bones, even fish bones can be really beneficial for your overall health and benefit lots of different tissues in the body. Again, I'm going to suggest get all the information on onbroad Read the book nourishing bone broths. Alright, so there's a difference as I referred to in the studies earlier, there's a difference between collagen hydrolysate or collagen peptides, and collagen protein. So collagen hydrolysate is not naturally present in bone broth. So this is why using both bone broth and collagen hydrolysate can offer really significant benefits. So just like we want to use a variety of bones, we can also get these different benefits from using both types of collagen. So bone broth is this wonderful mix of collagen, protein, gelatin. Other nutrients are it's excellent for your overall wellness, and collagen. hydrolysate, on the other hand gives more benefits when it comes to absorption. It's a smaller molecule, so it's easier for the body to absorb. And it's been shown to have really specific benefits for skin joints and bone health. Now you can get these through supplements as well, which I'll talk about in a second. But first, if you're like Laura, I'm don't have an Insta pot. That's cool. You can put everything into a pot and make your own bone broth. You just let it cook on the stove for 1824 hours. And then you're like, yep, that's not happening. I'm not doing it. It's okay. There are some really popular organic bone broth brands that have some really good attributes to them. And you can certainly turn to those. Some of the most popular ones I would say are kettle and fire. And that one is known for its really high quality and slow simmered bone broth. It's made from organic grass fed animals. There's Pacific foods and other organic bone broth made from free range chickens and grass fed beef. Nice. So we got that mix of both kinds of bones in it. We've got also good company, and that specializes in small batch handcrafted bone broth, all organic ingredients. This is really important. We want organic ingredients in our broth. There's bare bones again, they focus on organic bone broth made from pasture raised ingredients, and bonafide provisions is another good brand. So again, I'll link to all of those in the show notes. When it comes to collagen hydroxylase. This is going to be a supplement, right? So even if you're making bone broth, and you're drinking bone broth, you're not going to get the collagen hydrosulfite that we saw some of the benefits from in the studies. So what do you want to look for when you're looking for a supplement? You want to check to make sure it's grass fed pasture raised wild caught animals, right so wild cod fish, grass fed pasture raised animals, if we're talking about chickens, and beef or even pork, you want to ensure that the product is certified non GMO, gluten free and free from artificial additives. I don't think it's a bad idea to check for third party testing to look for brands that do undergo third party testing to verify their purity and their quality. I say it's not a bad idea because I know third party testing is always an additional expense. And so a lot of times if you're looking at a third party tested product is probably going to be more expensive because they have to pay more to go through that and then go through that certification process to kind of give the consumer more confidence in their product. But you definitely want to make sure that brands provide clear information about their sourcing and manufacturing process grass fed organic, non GMO, gluten free super important things to look for in your bone broth. This is why I like to make my own because I know what to put in it and sometimes I vary like there are weeks where I'll put in things that are going to be more give it more of an Asian flair or I'll put in some Tumeric I'll put in lemongrass and even a knob of ginger so you and change up everything when you make it at home, I like having the benefit of that kind of freedom and flexibility. But I think one really good supplement and one that I personally use, and they make both collagen peptides and just collagen protein is vital proteins. And gosh, you can get it on Amazon, you can get that at Costco, and I'll link to it in the show notes for this episode, but it's a good quality brand. And it provides a variety of different ways that you can get both the peptides and the proteins into your body. Alright. So I know we think about protein a lot, I hear it all the time, I need more protein need more protein? Well, protein is really important. And especially as we age, it's important. Collagen can be a great support. But again, you don't know if you're getting enough protein or if you need protein, unless you're really looking at what you eat. You know, I know a lot of people are adverse to food tracking, but I highly recommend it, especially if you're going through some kind of a medical process. Because it's important to know what's going into your body because it's supporting your ability to be well and to feel well. Are you getting enough nutrients? Are you getting enough calories? Do you have a good balance of nutrients, if you've been through surgeries, if you're going through chemotherapy, do you possibly need a little more protein and a little more amino acids to be able to support your body's ability to heal during these really challenging times, some of the ways we can tell that is by looking at what your proteins are. And your albumin levels are in your labs, other ways tracking your food, right? So it's important sometimes that we're just a little more conscientious and a little more committed to kind of the details depending on where we're at in life. And it doesn't have to be a forever thing. But I highly recommend carving out some time to get to know what you're really putting in your body and stop guessing. Like I cannot tell you how powerful that is. Right? And I just love I love love love working with my clients going over their nutrition genome going over their labs, teaching them how to look at these reports, and understand what their body needs. Because it's just such an empowering process.
32:23
How do you know if you're doing all the things that are good for your body? Well, do you have good elimination habits? Do you feel good throughout the day? Do you have brain fog? Or do you have nice consistent energy throughout the day? How are your moods like all of these things in the way that you operate in the world and feel in your body, all of those things are giving you indications as to whether or not what you're doing to support your body is working is the right thing. You're not supposed to feel miserable. I mean, if we're going through chemo and radiation, we're gonna feel like shit, right? There's definitely going to be a difference in your health. But when we're working on supporting ourselves, and we're done with those really devastating types of surgeries or treatments, and we're working on supporting our body's ability to heal, we kind of have to use the signals our body is sending us as a measurement. So for me, someone who's on chemotherapy and who's been on chemotherapy for three and a half years now, I have to be extra conscientious of getting lots of nourishment and lots of hydration and lots of electrolytes into my body to feel as good as I feel to be able to get up every morning and go to the gym and go from my walks and participate in my life. And I believe that the lifestyle plan that I follow overall is the major player in the fact that I feel good enough to do all those things. Alright, so friend if you need support with that, you can find me at the breast cancer recovery coach.com You can check out my metabolic health coaching programs which take all of your data into consideration and include a ton of coaching to help you implement the things and understand the things that work for your unique specific, amazing body and help you feel as good as you can feel. All right, check that out the breast cancer recovery coach.com Check out the links below and support your body with some good nutrition and I'll talk to you soon
